Led back to Halide, T5, or combo.

[Rockhead]

Now that looks

Good

 

[TJ's Reef]

Nice to hear all your experiences. I'll not be going back to halide or T-5s, as I have never had such amazing growth and colour (plus low leccy bil, no bulb replacements, etc. You know the arguments), which leads me to think much more is involved that lighting source. Clearly, one may prefer one look to the other (I hate T-5s, looks like candy store plastic) and certain corals respond to specific types of lighting much better than others. If you like pastels, than T-5s are more your thing, while deeper tones benefit from halides. I found I can achieve both with LEDs and the main difference is not so much intensity, but spectrum and available nutrients. Once one learns to manipulate these in a manner that benefits your collection of corals, you may find yourself getting on with them.

Our expectations dictate how we interpret our results. If you like Boskop apples, don't expect a Red Delicious to give you the same taste experience.

I'm with Jamie on his above comments. You cannot lump all LED's together any more than you can any other light source, as said its all about having the correct broad spectrum to balance growth with looks. How about trying just a 7000K MH and saying 'Man.... all my corals are brown.... I thought that MH's were the bomb' lol
I ran MH's for years and VHO's for decades with much success but would never go back from using LED's (DIY full spectrum). There are now several well mixed LED fixtures one can purchase or have custom made to mimic any MH lamp available, just takes some research and/or experience. I have seen so many FADS and HYPE in this hobby over the years and is sometimes very difficult to distinguish fact from myth. I can tell you from decades of experience that LED's are not a fad but in fact probably the best light source in general we've ever had to date. Take your time and know or learn what you really want from your lighting then purchase or build to suit. You can easily get spectral charts of most MH and T5 lamps and then choose appropriate emitters to match peaks in a ratio that best suits your likes.

Cheers, Todd

 

[danangelo]

Good

Thanks buddy...Im really liking this combo..I think I can still get away of not running a chiller...

 

[danangelo]

This is what it looks like with the cover I like the colors. .so far

 

[DaniSLOelle]

I've been running LED's and am about to switch to T5's with some added LED. I am copying the lighting setup that Mike @ SexyCorals uses in his store. Can anyone give me any tips about how to actually make the switch? Do I need to start with the T5's on for a lot less time to allow my LPS to adjust?
I have the JBJ Intermediate LED(27watts) with stunner strip and am going to T5 actinic+ & blue+(I think). Thanks!! Any help would be appreciated!

 

[jtucker022187]

What T5 fixture are you going to use and what is the wattage?

 

[DaniSLOelle]

What T5 fixture are you going to use and what is the wattage?

AquaticLife 24" Dual Lamp T5 HO 48Watts
Aquarium Lighting T5 Fluorescent Light Fixture: AquaticLife T5 HO Dual Lamp Light Fixtures
1 Giesemann Actinic+ & 1 Wave point blue wave
Thanks for responding!

 

[flyingfish]

Nice to hear all your experiences. I'll not be going back to halide or T-5s, as I have never had such amazing growth and colour (plus low leccy bil, no bulb replacements, etc. You know the arguments), which leads me to think much more is involved that lighting source. Clearly, one may prefer one look to the other (I hate T-5s, looks like candy store plastic) and certain corals respond to specific types of lighting much better than others. If you like pastels, than T-5s are more your thing, while deeper tones benefit from halides. I found I can achieve both with LEDs and the main difference is not so much intensity, but spectrum and available nutrients. Once one learns to manipulate these in a manner that benefits your collection of corals, you may find yourself getting on with them.

Our expectations dictate how we interpret our results. If you like Boskop apples, don't expect a Red Delicious to give you the same taste experience.

Which LEDs are you using?

 

[jtucker022187]

AquaticLife 24" Dual Lamp T5 HO 48Watts
Aquarium Lighting T5 Fluorescent Light Fixture: AquaticLife T5 HO Dual Lamp Light Fixtures
1 Giesemann Actinic+ & 1 Wave point blue wave
Thanks for responding!

I would cut your time in half to start, you are doubling your light source. I would keep it 10 hours for the blue wave but the giesmann on for like 2 hours, couple days then 3 hours, couple days then 4 hours, and so on, I run on my tank a 12 hour cycle, at 10 my two blues come on till 12 then go off and my four come on for an hour then all 6 until about 7, then just the four for an hour then they go off and the blues come back on at 8 till 10.

 

[DaniSLOelle]

I would cut your time in half to start, you are doubling your light source. I would keep it 10 hours for the blue wave but the giesmann on for like 2 hours, couple days then 3 hours, couple days then 4 hours, and so on, I run on my tank a 12 hour cycle, at 10 my two blues come on till 12 then go off and my four come on for an hour then all 6 until about 7, then just the four for an hour then they go off and the blues come back on at 8 till 10.

Thanks

 

[jtucker022187]

I know it's quite conservative, but I would rather be safe then sorry

 

[DaniSLOelle]

I totally get it, better be safe. I've spent too much money to make me want to risk anything.

 

[jtucker022187]

I know the feeling

 

[danangelo]

I added the t5s a few hours added a week now im running 6 hours with my led and everything is doing great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0WCip_AtxY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Heres a viedo update

 

[KologneKoral]

Which LEDs are you using?

I'm using the Vertex Illumina SR260 on one tank and the SR360 on another (newest model). Added multicolour modules to the 260 and some UV-Violet to the 360.

I had lots of DIY versions before, but, at that time (over 5 years ago), the LEDs on the market were very limited. Still, the basic combi of Cool White-Royal Blue-Blue is still the best basics combi. Addtitional spectrum will fine tune, but excellent coral growth is possible with the BIG 3. I would add 420nm to this, as with these three blue-violet is well covered. Something around 400nm will benefit many red pigments. Red light itself is not required by the corals and really best for the aesthetic. I do wonder, though, if some red in the spectrum triggers the production of red reflective pigments, which then protect the coral from the excess red spectrum. Many red pigments do not fluoresce, rather reflect light, which leads one to think of then as protective in nature, as they are the pigments that will reflect their colour strongly.

cheers,

 

[TJ's Reef]

I just want to clarify or correct a bit of information above from Jamie's post. Red spectrum is indeed necessary for photosynthesis by the most common of pigments chlorophyll a which relies on heavily on the Blue/Green 400-550nm and Red 625-700nm spectrum and even the second most abundant pigment chlorophyll b absorbs mainly in the 450-480nm (Blues), 610-630nm (Red) and 650-670nm (far Red) ranges.
Photosynthetic plants including symbiotic algae present in our corals can very easily be grown with just Blue and Red LED's, they would look deathly black to our eyes but would be healthy and show amazing color once illuminated with more of a full spectrum that we can better see under. Its the Whites in LED's or Phospherous coatings that refract light into the warmer spectrum like Red, Amber and Yellow. This same phosphorous coatings that give T5, PC or VHO's their particular color outputs. Some of the issues with LED's are that the 'Cool Whites' do not have much in the way of these higher color values thus need Red supplementation either as Red diodes or Neutral or Warm Whites to really be full spectrum. You commonly see or read about color shifts in corals when changing to LED's, this is normally caused by this lack of Red and the shift of pigments in the corals to compensate. Naturally there is a big difference in pigment types within corals depending on where/how deep in the water column they exist/come from. The Sun's Red spectrum all but disappears at depth so deep water corals have adapted for this and thrive unchanged in our 20K schemes and shallow water specimens will do better/change less with lighting more towards a 10-14K scheme.

Cheers, Todd

 

[DO NOT PM]

Those of you who left LED lighting, mind sharing which LEDs you used?

 

[KologneKoral]

Todd,

this is incorrect. Corals are not capable of using light they do not receive. Most corals NEVER receive any light above 600nm and the chlorophyll a and c (no chlorophyll b in corals) uses only the blue part of the spectrum. Do not confuse what happens in a petri dish with what happens 5m under the water surface, where red wavelength above 600nm are gone. Even corals on the reef flat, which do receive light above 600nm make little use of it. The amount of of radiation sets the corals in photoinhibition. In experiments (see those from Dana Riddle, which I have duplicated myself) red radiation (specifically 620nm-630nm from test LED) actually caused major tissue damage in all corals tested. Best case scenarios only show stopped growth. I noted no obvious change in pigment content or type other than bleaching.

The mythos on red is very simple to understand, one trys to compare teresstrial photosynthesis to marine photosynthesis. The parameters are very different. The height of coral diversity is at 20m. Here we have light only in the range of about 520nm and below. Even peridinin, which harvests light energy at up to 520nm and passes this on to the chloroplast is at its borderlines, but has extended the usable range of light for the coral symbiont.

Red light does have an interesting side effect, when dosed in small quantities, other than the aesthetic, many corals do react to this unwanted part of the spectrum by increasing their red pigment content. These reflective, non-fluorescent pigments aid the coral in protecting itself from the red radiation. Not all corals do this from the same species, which leads one to believe this may be a genetic mutation found in only a certain percent of the species.

cheers,

Jamie

I just want to clarify or correct a bit of information above from Jamie's post. Red spectrum is indeed necessary for photosynthesis by the most common of pigments chlorophyll a which relies on heavily on the Blue/Green 400-550nm and Red 625-700nm spectrum and even the second most abundant pigment chlorophyll b absorbs mainly in the 450-480nm (Blues), 610-630nm (Red) and 650-670nm (far Red) ranges.
Photosynthetic plants including symbiotic algae present in our corals can very easily be grown with just Blue and Red LED's, they would look deathly black to our eyes but would be healthy and show amazing color once illuminated with more of a full spectrum that we can better see under. Its the Whites in LED's or Phospherous coatings that refract light into the warmer spectrum like Red, Amber and Yellow. This same phosphorous coatings that give T5, PC or VHO's their particular color outputs. Some of the issues with LED's are that the 'Cool Whites' do not have much in the way of these higher color values thus need Red supplementation either as Red diodes or Neutral or Warm Whites to really be full spectrum. You commonly see or read about color shifts in corals when changing to LED's, this is normally caused by this lack of Red and the shift of pigments in the corals to compensate. Naturally there is a big difference in pigment types within corals depending on where/how deep in the water column they exist/come from. The Sun's Red spectrum all but disappears at depth so deep water corals have adapted for this and thrive unchanged in our 20K schemes and shallow water specimens will do better/change less with lighting more towards a 10-14K scheme.

Cheers, Todd

 

[TJ's Reef]

Hey Jamie, you are correct in studies showing Coral not to contain Chlorophyll b, and partially correct that Corals cannot use light wavelengths that they do not receive though there are some recent studies showing how some corals are capable of manipulating what is there to more of their liking by altering the wavelengths present (I'll check for a copy and post it) As to the Red spectrum, I'm taking an educated guess that around 70% of this hobbies Corals are collected in the top 30'/10m and 70% of these are in 15' or less where Red radiation is significant and there are studies by some of our fellow German scientists that found common shallow water Pocillopora species to have high amounts of both Chlorophyll a & c both capable and respondent to wavelengths exceeding 600nm. With my own undocumented study (of chance) I ran my refugium with just a Blue/Red LED grow-light fixture for over a year and not only had great macro algae growth used it as a stand in frag grow out station for my Birdsnests (Seriatopora hystrix & caliendrum) Stylophora, Euphyllia sp., Hydnophora and Montipora sp. all grew/encrusted a stayed colored (if seen under whiter light) as well as various zoanthids and a autothropic blue sponge. I know that the shallower the species or location of Coral the less symbiotic alga are present by lack of need and more UV absorbing pigments are to be found, often giving the Corals some quite vibrant colors. So if this a reaction to Red radiation would we not want more ? I'm not offended by any of your comments and nor is there any offense directed towards you. I love communicating with other intellectual Reefkeepers, and the diversity of the Reef makes for some fantastic subject matter.

Cheers, Todd

A fascinating side note about Red Pigments is that the deeper the marine life exists the higher percentage of Red pigments can be found. More invisible than silver or even translucence at depth.

 

[EW_Fish]

I like color the combo color so far. ..will see how it will grow

I want to know why the leds are in the back and not the front?