LED Driver questions

[Daimyo68]

Hoping I can get some help/insight here. I'm looking for comparable/replacement dimmable drivers to replace the fixed drivers I have now, which are just on/off, no other control. A good friend built the fixture for me, but I would like to use the Apex ability to dim the lights. He is unsure of the dimmable drivers. Ive listed what I think the replacement dimmable drivers should be in Italic Blue, the current drivers in Bold Black

I'm really confused as to how the drivers are determined using LED voltage, amperage and wattage specs. I have a basic understanding after watching a couple videos, but this is beyond my comprehension at this point as I can get a grasp on it. (I guess that electricity class back in high school wasn't all that good after all :squigglemouth:

If anyone knows of a good write up explaining it all, please point me to it, and thanks for any input you may have.

Anyways, here's what I'm using now:

Meanwell LPC-35-700 running 4 Blue led's. I would like to be able to control 8 Blue's total with 1 driver (If I can't, then so be it). LED Specs are:
Forward Voltage: 10.2v
Forward Current: 700mA
ELN-60-48D x 2, cannot find a suitable single driver to run all 8

Meanwell LPC-35-700 running 4 Royal Blue. LED Specs are
Forward Voltage: 10.2v
Forward Current: 700mA
Meanwell ELN-60-48D

Meanwell LPC-20-700 running 4 leds. LED Specs are:
Forward Voltage: 3.9v
Forward Current: 700ma
Meanwell LPF-25D-36

Meanwell LPC 60-1400 Running 3 whites. I want to run 6 whites total on 1 driver if possible. LED specs are:
Forward Current @ Test: 1.05A
Forward Current If Max: 1.2A
Forward Voltage @ Test: 12.8V
(are these being Overdriven at 1.4amps with the current driver??)
ELN-60-48D x 2, cannot find a suitable single driver to run all 6

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Hoping I can get some help/insight here. I'm looking for comparable/replacement dimmable drivers to replace the fixed drivers I have now, which are just on/off, no other control. A good friend built the fixture for me, but I would like to use the Apex ability to dim the lights. He is unsure of the dimmable drivers. Ive listed what I think the replacement dimmable drivers should be in Italic Blue, the current drivers in Bold Black

I'm really confused as to how the drivers are determined using LED voltage, amperage and wattage specs. I have a basic understanding after watching a couple videos, but this is beyond my comprehension at this point as I can get a grasp on it. (I guess that electricity class back in high school wasn't all that good after all :squigglemouth:

If anyone knows of a good write up explaining it all, please point me to it, and thanks for any input you may have.

Anyways, here's what I'm using now:

Meanwell LPC-35-700 running 4 Blue led's. I would like to be able to control 8 Blue's total with 1 driver (If I can't, then so be it). LED Specs are:
Forward Voltage: 10.2v
Forward Current: 700mA
ELN-60-48D x 2, cannot find a suitable single driver to run all 8

Meanwell LPC-35-700 running 4 Royal Blue. LED Specs are
Forward Voltage: 10.2v
Forward Current: 700mA
Meanwell ELN-60-48D

Meanwell LPC-20-700 running 4 leds. LED Specs are:
Forward Voltage: 3.9v
Forward Current: 700ma
Meanwell LPF-25D-36

Meanwell LPC 60-1400 Running 3 whites. I want to run 6 whites total on 1 driver if possible. LED specs are:
Forward Current @ Test: 1.05A
Forward Current If Max: 1.2A
Forward Voltage @ Test: 12.8V
(are these being Overdriven at 1.4amps with the current driver??)
ELN-60-48D x 2, cannot find a suitable single driver to run all 6

Hyperon Driver....18-54VDC @ 700 mA Max
Inventronics Driver 18-54VDC @ 700 mA Max
Inventronics Driver 12-36VDC @ 1050 mA Max
Mean Well ELN 30-48D Driver 9-48VDC 630MA Max


All Dimmable with standard 1-10VDC

This link may help Driver FAQ’s « « ReefLEDLights | LED Aquarium Lighting ReefLEDLights | LED Aquarium Lighting

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[Daimyo68]

Hyperon Driver....18-54VDC @ 700 mA Max 2 of these I am assuming?
Inventronics Driver 18-54VDC @ 700 mA Max
Inventronics Driver 12-36VDC @ 1050 mA Max
Mean Well ELN 30-48D Driver 9-48VDC 630MA Max 2 of these I am assuming? Also, won't they be underpowered in the amprage range? If it tops out at 630mA and the LED is designed to run at 1.05A ?

 

[cparka23]

If those forward voltage specs are accurate, you can't use the Meanwell ELN-60-48D. Its voltage range for constant current operation is 24V to 48V. If 4 blue LEDs is 10.2V, then 8 LEDs will be 20.4V (too low for the driver). Similarly, you cannot use this driver for 4 Royal Blue LEDs, because the voltage required is below the output range. You need to run at least 24V for the driver to correctly regulate the current output.

You could use the LPF-25D-36 for the 8 blue LEDs, though. It is designed to run between 19.8-36V at a constant current.

To address your question about voltage, amperage and wattage... It sounds like you're trying to figure out how these come into play when picking out a driver. I'll do my best to explain.

We're most interested in the current (amperage) going through the LEDs, because that's what you need to keep in check. If current is too high, it destroys the LED. You can always run it lower than its maximum rated amperage, and people often do that. In order to keep current stable at a certain level, the driver has circuitry that constantly adjusts its output. The manufacturer will claim that the driver maintains the current, but it will only do it over a given voltage range. While it might be possible for the driver to output a little more voltage or less voltage than its specified range, the current might not stay at the amperage that you intended it to be. That's why it's important to know the total voltage that the LEDs will use. As long as the total voltage is within the manufacturer's range, the driver should work as advertised.

So look at your LEDs' total forward voltage, and then look at the drivers that reefledlights listed. If your LEDs take 10V to run, the only driver on that list that you can use is the Meanwell. Because the Meanwell doesn't put out more than 630mA, it won't be able to run the LEDs as bright as possible.

That being said, what LEDs does your fixture use? I am not sure that the specs sound correct to me.

 

[Daimyo68]

If those forward voltage specs are accurate, you can't use the Meanwell ELN-60-48D. Its voltage range for constant current operation is 24V to 48V. If 4 blue LEDs is 10.2V, then 8 LEDs will be 20.4V (too low for the driver). Similarly, you cannot use this driver for 4 Royal Blue LEDs, because the voltage required is below the output range. You need to run at least 24V for the driver to correctly regulate the current output.

You could use the LPF-25D-36 for the 8 blue LEDs, though. It is designed to run between 19.8-36V at a constant current.

To address your question about voltage, amperage and wattage... It sounds like you're trying to figure out how these come into play when picking out a driver. I'll do my best to explain.

We're most interested in the current (amperage) going through the LEDs, because that's what you need to keep in check. If current is too high, it destroys the LED. You can always run it lower than its maximum rated amperage, and people often do that. In order to keep current stable at a certain level, the driver has circuitry that constantly adjusts its output. The manufacturer will claim that the driver maintains the current, but it will only do it over a given voltage range. While it might be possible for the driver to output a little more voltage or less voltage than its specified range, the current might not stay at the amperage that you intended it to be. That's why it's important to know the total voltage that the LEDs will use. As long as the total voltage is within the manufacturer's range, the driver should work as advertised.

So look at your LEDs' total forward voltage, and then look at the drivers that reefledlights listed. If your LEDs take 10V to run, the only driver on that list that you can use is the Meanwell. Because the Meanwell doesn't put out more than 630mA, it won't be able to run the LEDs as bright as possible.

That being said, what LEDs does your fixture use? I am not sure that the specs sound correct to me.

Your explanation is what I was thinking, but I wanted to confirm, and will do so again here with some clarification on my part.

I listed all the leds specs as individual, sorry for any confusion.

So with that in mind, each blue LED is 10.2Vf @ .700mA. Running 4 would be a total of 40.8Vf @ .700mA, and running 8 would be a total of 81.6Vf @ .700mA, if that's correct.

So if I go with 4 Blues per driver, I thought the ELN-60-48D would work since it's voltage is adjustable between 24-48v, and it's current is adjustable between 0-1.3A

 

[cparka23]

I see. Those LEDs require a bit more voltage than the Crees and Luxeons that I know, so I thought it was the voltage of a string of LEDs. Anyway, I think I found a driver to look at for your 8 Blue LEDs. You might have to dig into a spec sheet to double check if it is what you need, though. From glancing over the datasheet for a few minutes, it seems like it is up to the task.

It's a Thomas Research driver sold by Digikey (link), which is a highly reputable electronics company here in the US. It is dimmable from a 0-10V signal (should work with the Apex), and it has an output voltage range of 28-86V. It's 700mA output current on full blast. Just a note, it looks like it won't dim to zero from the Apex. If you want it off, you have to turn off the power, which isn't a problem with a controller. The datasheet is on the page I linked.

Drivers get a little pricey for higher voltage outputs, which is what we have here. It may be cheaper to use two lower voltage drivers running fewer LEDs than to use one higher voltage driver running them all. That's your decision, though.

If you want to search more drivers, here's the page where you can do a search at Digikey (link). Hope this helps steer you in the right direction.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Hyperon Driver....18-54VDC @ 700 mA Max 2 of these I am assuming?
Inventronics Driver 18-54VDC @ 700 mA Max
Inventronics Driver 12-36VDC @ 1050 mA Max
Mean Well ELN 30-48D Driver 9-48VDC 630MA Max 2 of these I am assuming? Also, won't they be underpowered in the amprage range? If it tops out at 630mA and the LED is designed to run at 1.05A ?

For the Hyperon you need a minimum of 6 LEDs and it can handle a max of 15.

LEDs have a sweet spot when it comes to efficiency and brightness for the Cree thats about 60-70% of maximum drive current. The Mean Well ELN 30-48D can be used as a direct replacement for the LPC35-700 as it has the same Vf range. The difference is its 630mA not 700mA or will drive the LEDs about 10% dimmer.

Bill

 

[Daimyo68]

Both explanations have cleared up my thoughts about how the voltage works now. Amperage was easy.

I am still curious though how wattage affects what we are doing with LEDs.

To find that wattage: 10.2vf x .700mA= 7.14watts. Assuming 4 blue on one driver, the minimum wattage needed would be 28.56 watts.

Obviously, too little wattage supplied and they leds would not come on. But what about over wattage? The ELN-60-48D is rated at 62.5watts. That's 33.94watts above the total needed of 28.56.

Will this overage effect the LEDs in a bad way, too much heat?

Is wattage the total available power to the LEDs?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Both explanations have cleared up my thoughts about how the voltage works now. Amperage was easy.

I am still curious though how wattage affects what we are doing with LEDs.

To find that wattage: 10.2vf x .700mA= 7.14watts. Assuming 4 blue on one driver, the minimum wattage needed would be 28.56 watts.

Obviously, too little wattage supplied and they leds would not come on. But what about over wattage? The ELN-60-48D is rated at 62.5watts. That's 33.94watts above the total needed of 28.56.

Will this overage effect the LEDs in a bad way, too much heat?

Is wattage the total available power to the LEDs?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Drivers like the Meanwell and Hyperon are variable voltage. They automatically adjust the voltage within their given range to meet the demands of the LEDs. Watts will depend on which Vf the driver uses and what current is set.

Bill

 

[Reef Breeders Verified Sponsor]

Both explanations have cleared up my thoughts about how the voltage works now. Amperage was easy.

I am still curious though how wattage affects what we are doing with LEDs.

To find that wattage: 10.2vf x .700mA= 7.14watts. Assuming 4 blue on one driver, the minimum wattage needed would be 28.56 watts.

Obviously, too little wattage supplied and they leds would not come on. But what about over wattage? The ELN-60-48D is rated at 62.5watts. That's 33.94watts above the total needed of 28.56.

Will this overage effect the LEDs in a bad way, too much heat?

Is wattage the total available power to the LEDs?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

You do not need to multiply anything other than the number of LEDs* the forward voltage of each to find out the forward Voltage, 10.2v=10.2 forwardv on the driver. At 700ma, you can run 2 parellel strings of 4 multichips, and save on drivers, using the ELN 60-48D.

 

[Daimyo68]

You do not need to multiply anything to find out the forward Voltage, 10.2v=10.2 forwardv on the driver. At 700ma, you can run 2 parellel strings of 4 multichips, and save on drivers, using the ELN 60-48D.

So your saying that 4 bulbs at 10.2v totals 10.2v? They don't need to be added to figure out total voltage needed?

And that the voltage coming out of the driver needs to only be 10.2v and can supply 2 strings of 4 bulbs at .700mA

I'm sorry but this makes no sense, and throws a wrench into what's been said above for total voltage for 4, 10.2vf LEDs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Reef Breeders Verified Sponsor]

So your saying that 4 bulbs at 10.2v totals 10.2v? They don't need to be added to figure out total voltage needed?

And that the voltage coming out of the driver needs to only be 10.2v and can supply 2 strings of 4 bulbs at .700mA

I'm sorry but this makes no sense, and throws a wrench into what's been said above for total voltage for 4, 10.2vf LEDs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

No, I mean 10.2v per LED, 10.2*4 = 40.8v. I meant you do not need to do any calculating other than that.

 

[Daimyo68]

No, I mean 10.2v per LED, 10.2*4 = 40.8v. I meant you do not need to do any calculating other than that.

That's what I thought, just wanted to confirm.

I do want to give a big thanks to everyone who replied here. You all have helped the hair start regrowing on my head

Still curious how wattage plays a part in the scheme of things here though.

 

[cparka23]

Wattage is sort of an afterthought if you follow the specs for the driver. If you have your current and you know the forward voltage, then that's it. Power is simply voltage x current.

For example, if the driver is designed to run from 20V to 80V at 700mA, the total power would be 20V*0.7A=14 watts at minimum and 80V*0.7A=56W maximum. You just need to keep the voltage in its range, the current is fixed at 700mA, and power will be within spec as a result. It sounds like you're interpreting the label of "X Watts" as a fixed wattage. It actually varies with the voltage that the driver outputs.

 

[Daimyo68]

Wattage is sort of an afterthought if you follow the specs for the driver. If you have your current and you know the forward voltage, then that's it. Power is simply voltage x current.

For example, if the driver is designed to run from 20V to 80V at 700mA, the total power would be 20V*0.7A=14 watts at minimum and 80V*0.7A=56W maximum. You just need to keep the voltage in its range, the current is fixed at 700mA, and power will be within spec as a result. It sounds like you're interpreting the label of "X Watts" as a fixed wattage. It actually varies with the voltage that the driver outputs.

Ok that makes better sense to me. Thanks again for all the input! Now to get the power supplies ordered and get this ting dimming