LED Fans Dying Left and Right!

[redfishbluefish]

I just can't seem to get a break with my LED's.

Back in March I posted about the issues I had with the two Apollo fixtures I had, where I replaced all the blue LEDs, because they were burnt. I documented that HERE. At the same time, one of the six fans wasn't working, so I replaces that as well. The issue with the fans is, not knowing any info about the power supply (from China, with no label), I didn't want to exceed the amp rating on the current fans (0.1 amp). Try finding 0.1 amp or less fans!

So today I'm on a stepstool over the canopy cleaning off the dust and I look down on my three LED fixtures (total of 8 fans) and only see two fans running. WHAT!!!!! Two fixtures have no fans running at all; and one fixture has two of the three running. I should point out that the one fixture with no fans running was a Mars Aqua that I purchased, maybe eight months ago. Now before I speak negatively, I do have it turned down pretty far and maybe that impacts fans running. Don't know because I haven't taken that one apart yet.

So I pull off all three fixtures, and first tackle the Apollo with no fans running. I'm thinging, three fans out, it has to be the power supply. What's the chance that all three fans would die? Well, all three fans died! Knowing that I could get 0.09A fans from Best Buy for $7, I jumped in my car with the plan of buying six fans. The store I went to (E. Brunswick) only had two, and I purchase those. Asked where their next nearest store was (Woodbrige), and purchased the three they had there.

So tonight, I've done the one Apollo. Here are the old fans, removed:



And the link on the label or these old fans (www.fan-cooling.com) brings you to a Chinese website, that when translated, this fan is not found to be available anymore.

And here are the three fans installed prior to the solder job:



They were soldered up and now all three fans are working.....in this fixture.

Now to tackle the Mars Aqua. Let's see what's inside that beast. More to come.

 

[Eckolancer]

Looks about like some of the DIYs I've built for biocubes. With those I like to run the fans on their own driver. With them on the same driver as LEDs there are always issues.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Thanks for the reply @Eckolancer , but with the Apollo's, they do have their own power supply for the fans. In the picture above, it's that little "box" just below the fan on the right.

Now with the Mars Aqua.......I haven't opened that one yet.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Fans don't run on drivers. They use a power supply. Drivers and supply are different. Don't be afraid of using a larger supply on the fans. You'll be happy.
Can't get too technical. I haven't finished my coffee yet.
In short you have more available current.

 

[redfishbluefish]

OK! So last night I opened up the Mars Aqua. The guts of this one is slightly different than Apollos.....no Bridge Rectifiers because it appears it gets the juice for the fans directly from the LED power source. (@saltyfilmfolks , check out the picture below....the fan wires come out of the LED power supply???) I also wasn't crazy about a simply smooth aluminum plate for the heat sink. Would have liked to have seen finned.





Now here's the bizarre thing, when I plugged this back in after putting it back together, the fans worked! Now I did turn up the pots, and I'm thinking it was now getting enough volts to start the fans. I don't know....I'm an electronics idiot. I also noticed, for an eight month old fixture, that the fans were way too clean.....not a speck of dust. So I'm guessing these never ran.

Bottom line, I'll keep an eye on this one, but no more plans for this fixture.

Now the race is on. I want to take the two remaining new fans and put them in the other Apollo before my lights are planned to come on....11AM. Since I had replaced one of the fans eight months ago, that will leave me with three new fans in this unit. Be back soon to let you know if I got this done in time.

 

[Stephanie11]

the weakest part are the connectors. Replace those or even get rid of the connector from the fan all together.

I have a Chinese light and the blues stopped working after a year. I opened it, disconnected and reconnected all plugs. Everything worked for a week then didn't. So I opened it and cut the connectors out and spliced the wires together. Light has been working for 2 years since.

Try that and report back. Who knows your fans might still be good!

 

[markak]

Following along, a couple of my fans on 3 of my Apollo fixtures aren't working. Not sure how to replace them. Also a few of the LED' s are out.

 

[PedroYoung]

haha, read the title of the thread and thought reefers were dying (fans of LED lighting).

 

[Reefing Madness]

From where Im sitting, the fans power comes right off the power supply, and its straight out, meaining the dimmer would not have any effect on them at all. They run off of 12vdc, so you can throw a volt meter on the black and red wires coming from the power supply to that little molex connection between the fan and power supply, check the voltage there, should be around 12vdc. Then spin the fan blades using your finger, if they are tight, its a bad fan, those babies don't run forever, and the ones not using bearings last even a shorter time frame.

 

[redfishbluefish]

@Stephanie11 , thanks for the heads up. My connectors seem to be fine so far. However, with one of the fans, the red wire was busted off at the fan....and it looked oxidized a bit.

Following along, a couple of my fans on 3 of my Apollo fixtures aren't working. Not sure how to replace them. Also a few of the LED' s are out.

I documented replaceing LEDs in Apollo fixtures HERE. I also briefly touched on fan replace in that link as well. With either, it does require basic knowledge of soldering....but otherwise both are fairly simple. The fan simply requires you to take off two nuts, cut the old wires, and resolder the new fixture wire in....red to red, black to black. If you get the Best Buy fans, that also comes with a blue wire that isn't needed....just tuck it in somewhere.

haha, read the title of the thread and thought reefers were dying (fans of LED lighting).

I tell you it's outright carnage....they are dropping like flys....let this be a lesson for them switching from T5's.

That's pretty funny....I didn't catch the double meaning when I posted this.

 

[redfishbluefish]

From where Im sitting, the fans power comes right off the power supply, and its straight out, meaining the dimmer would not have any effect on them at all. They run off of 12vdc, so you can throw a volt meter on the black and red wires coming from the power supply to that little molex connection between the fan and power supply, check the voltage there, should be around 12vdc. Then spin the fan blades using your finger, if they are tight, its a bad fan, those babies don't run forever, and the ones not using bearings last even a shorter time frame.

OK, just to clarify, I am talking about two different brands of fixtures. One are the Apollos, and the second is a Mars Aqua (A $78 Ebay fixture). With the Apollos, they have there own power supply for the fans only, which is directed to come ON when voltage is detected in the Bridge Rectifiers (or so that is how I think it works). So we are clear on that one.

Now, with the Mars Aqua, there is no obvious separate power supply for the fans. Out of each LED driver I have two wires going to the LEDs and two wires going to a fan. Now here is what I've just discovered.....as mentioned, I have the pots turned down on this, and by appearance of the fans (squeaky clean) they haven't been running.....when I turn the pots up to about 75%, the fans come ON. Now I don't know electronics, but I'm just telling you what I'm seeing. Here is the photo of the inside of the Mars Aqua:

 

[Reefing Madness]

You want to replace the broken fans, with ones that state they are using bearings.

 

[Reefing Madness]

OK, just to clarify, I am talking about two different brands of fixtures. One are the Apollos, and the second is a Mars Aqua (A $78 Ebay fixture). With the Apollos, they have there own power supply for the fans only, which is directed to come ON when voltage is detected in the Bridge Rectifiers (or so that is how I think it works). So we are clear on that one.

Now, with the Mars Aqua, there is no obvious separate power supply for the fans. Out of each LED driver I have two wires going to the LEDs and two wires going to a fan. Now here is what I've just discovered.....as mentioned, I have the pots turned down on this, and by appearance of the fans (squeaky clean) they haven't been running.....when I turn the pots up to about 75%, the fans come ON. Now I don't know electronics, but I'm just telling you what I'm seeing. Here is the photo of the inside of the Mars Aqua:

Ah, so the genius in the factory did not seperate the power sources out of the power supply, the just spliced them inside. thats just wrong. Maybe their thinking is that the LEDs would not get hot enough under a certain % of power.

 

[redfishbluefish]

So my light fixtures are back up over the tank. With the second Apollo, only one fan wasn't working. I had replaced one of the fans eight months ago, and since I had already purchased enough fans, I decided to replace the two remaining original fans. So now with the two Apollos I have all new fans. Here's the second Apollo done:




To point out the parts in this one.....the two larger boxes on either side are the drivers for the LEDs. The smaller white box on the top is the driver for the moonlights. The small black box on the bottom is the power supply for the fans.

And here are the three fixtures all ready to be put back over the tank.




I hope this ends my foray into the innards of my LED lights.

 

[redfishbluefish]

You want to replace the broken fans, with ones that state they are using bearings.

I wish I could go ball bearing, but here's the issue.....the power supply has no label, so I don't know how much of a draw it can take. That being said, I had to replace the existing fans, rated at 0.1 amps, with that amperage or less. I had enough of a problem finding 0.1 amp or less fans.....now throw in ball bearings.....I couldn't find them.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Ah, so the genius in the factory did not seperate the power sources out of the power supply, the just spliced them inside. thats just wrong. Maybe their thinking is that the LEDs would not get hot enough under a certain % of power.

Go figure???

It's obvious it requires a minimum voltage to start...and that's fairly high. I didn't want to run these lights that high...with the lenses they have (I think 90 degrees). Wonder if anyone has removed the lens off these fixtures. Think I'll start a new post about that and see what I find. Thanks for your input @Reefing Madness

 

[Reefing Madness]

I pulled the lenses off those units, they actually work better without them. I run my lights at Blues 100% and whites 75%.

 

[redfishbluefish]

So I was going to wait for lights out to do my final "fix" to my lights.....removing the lenses from the Mars Aqua fixture. But I didn't wait. I staged all the tools needed and pulled the fixtures off, opened the Mars Aqua, and removed the lenses, put all back together, all within 20 minutes.

So now I can turn up the pots and make sure my fans are running on this fixture without burning the corals. Here is a picture of the fixture with lenses (center fixture)(Note, both pictures are BLUES only):

And a picture without lenses:




Now I just need to start turning up the pots to match the two Apollos.

I’m happier than a tornado in a trailer park.

 

[TheEngineer]

Just throwing my $0.02 in here. My guess is that the fans don't come on because they aren't necessary until you reach 75% power on the LEDs. Plenty of fixtures work this way, Kessils run a different fan speed depending on intensity.

With stuff blowing so often, it could just be poor quality, but it seems more likely to me that you may have a power issue. Any trouble with other electronics or electrical components? What else is on that circuit? Do your lights ever dim slightly when something large (fridge or AC) comes on?

 

[redfishbluefish]

I too would like to think that some low priced LED manufacturer has matched the minimum voltage needed to start their fans to the temperature requirements of the fixture. But I really have to believe that it's serendipity. I have replaced too many LEDs because of excessive heat, and I want my LED fixtures to have fans running whenever they are on, regardless of the intensity (or unless they have a temperature sensor to know when to turn on).

My tank is on it's own circuit. There are no heaters, refrigerators, air conditioners, power sucking devices on this circuit, other than the tank.

Your two cents are priceless....thanks for the response.