eaglesncloudss
New Member
In your opinion what is the better light for coral mix tank? LED or t-5's?
LED lighting vs t5
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jhoop
Active Member
I have another question for this. I just revived a 4 Bulb T5. Replaced both ballasts and upgraded the moonlights to 1 Watt. I just have some cheap bulbs in it now. I read about bulbs and get confused. What combination would you suggest for a Fish, Anemone tank with an overgrown Kenya trees ?
Jeff
Jeff
Techie_
Active Member
I just went through the same struggle... In my mixed reef I just a Coralife Aquapro (I believe that is the name), used with 4 ATI Coral+ bulbs for $120, I just bought some new bulbs in a group buy though... So far they're proving to be much better than some Chinese black box MarsAqua LEDs that I tried for awhile.
Techie_
Active Member
Here is a good video for deciding which bulbs to purchase:
For a 4 bulb configuration I would go: Front to back, ATI Purple +, Coral +, Blue +, Blue +. This is all personal preference.
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
T5s Without a doubt work but are expensive in the long run. If you run them too long and switch them out for a newer brighter bulb you add stress to your coral as it was used to the old bulb.
A true sunrise and sunset is a must. A quality LED fixture does this easily and even provides seasonal variations. A T5 MH Combo works well with sunrise as the MH takes time to ramp up but shut down can stress the fish just like a sudden ON.
My Choice in order
-Quality LED Fixture
-T5/MH
-T5
Note: I would not consider some of the Import Black Box options viable simply because many of their components are not UL/CE listed and introduce electrical risk.
Bill
A true sunrise and sunset is a must. A quality LED fixture does this easily and even provides seasonal variations. A T5 MH Combo works well with sunrise as the MH takes time to ramp up but shut down can stress the fish just like a sudden ON.
My Choice in order
-Quality LED Fixture
-T5/MH
-T5
Note: I would not consider some of the Import Black Box options viable simply because many of their components are not UL/CE listed and introduce electrical risk.
Bill
LostInTheDark
Active Member
I have 4 Ocean Revive LEDs over a 225 and if I had it to do over again I would go T5. They say LEDs should last for years without any degradation but that has not been mine or other local reefers experience. I don't know about the high end LEDs but the lower end like I use tend to shift spectrum over time and slowly burn out. I've had to replace the diodes several times over the last few years and have lost many corals until I figured out what was happening. If you go to the Ocean Revive forum you'll find several threads about it with users of other brand LEDs chiming in. I'm considering going T5 now but am finding it hard to spend another $850 on lights after wasting money on these LEDs.
A quality led fixture will serve you well and last as long as they should. When it comes to led you do get what you pay for, literally. That being said I run a hydra 52 over my tank and I'm pretty happy with it but I'm adding a couple T5s to suppliment my light at which point I think I'll really be content with my lighting. So in short my answer would be both. Each light has its own merits and together they really do the job well.
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
Quality using the latest binned Cree X series LEDs offers several advantages.
Back in the Day large tank owners would stagger MH and T5 Bulb replacement as this would provide less stress to the corals.
Depending on the bulb when they end their short life intensity drops off really quick. To the human eye if you notice this it's too late...Acclimation process all over again...
Staggering Periodic Replacement lessens the problematic quick drop in intensity.
Given that the Cree X Series LEDs are rated for at least 75% after 50,000 hours, this is a huge advantage.
Note that this advantage is mitigated or lessened when using counterfeit LEDs or drivers that commonly fail after 18 months.
Personally I just redone my SPS Tank with only High End Frags. I'm not going to stress them out with replacing lights. Vacations are enough worry...
Bill
Back in the Day large tank owners would stagger MH and T5 Bulb replacement as this would provide less stress to the corals.
Depending on the bulb when they end their short life intensity drops off really quick. To the human eye if you notice this it's too late...Acclimation process all over again...
Staggering Periodic Replacement lessens the problematic quick drop in intensity.
Given that the Cree X Series LEDs are rated for at least 75% after 50,000 hours, this is a huge advantage.
Note that this advantage is mitigated or lessened when using counterfeit LEDs or drivers that commonly fail after 18 months.
Personally I just redone my SPS Tank with only High End Frags. I'm not going to stress them out with replacing lights. Vacations are enough worry...
Bill
carolinareefguy
Community Member
I love hearing how LEDs are so much cheaper. My situation...
I have 180 gallon mixed reef and looking for new light. Needs to be strong enough for SPS.
Option 1
3 radions plus hanging devices going to cost me $2500+.
Option 2
5' ATI Sunpower fixture $663
8 bulbs $200
I would need to change bulbs every 9 months at $200 costs. Meaning I would have to change the bulbs 8 more times or 6-7 years down the road before I broke even. In 3 years your LEDs fixtures will need a new update and the newer technology will be far superior to what it is today, making your LEDs out dated and leaving u to spend more money.
Even if they don't need updating. 7 years until you break even in costs.
I have 180 gallon mixed reef and looking for new light. Needs to be strong enough for SPS.
Option 1
3 radions plus hanging devices going to cost me $2500+.
Option 2
5' ATI Sunpower fixture $663
8 bulbs $200
I would need to change bulbs every 9 months at $200 costs. Meaning I would have to change the bulbs 8 more times or 6-7 years down the road before I broke even. In 3 years your LEDs fixtures will need a new update and the newer technology will be far superior to what it is today, making your LEDs out dated and leaving u to spend more money.
Even if they don't need updating. 7 years until you break even in costs.
TheEngineer
Formerly icecool2
Don't forget about power costs in your analysis.
5 Foot T5
80wx8x10 hoursx365 days=2,336 kWh
Radions at 100%
170wx3x10hpursx365 days = 1,862 kWh
Radions at 50%
85wx3x10hoursx365 days =931 kWh
Savings with LED:
474 kWh/year x $0.12/kWh = $56.88/ year
1405 kWh/year x $0.12/kWh = $168.80/year
At 100%, the LED cost break even is in 7.9 years. At 50% it is in 5.1 years. This analysis ignores the additional costs of heat removal from your home with the T5.
I used your numbers but I've been told T5 should be changed every 6 months rather than 9. Anyway, after 8 years you still have another 6 years of life in the fixture if you use the 100% example. There's 8.5 years left in the 50% example. You can keep using it or sell it. You don't have to upgrade the light if it is working for you.
If you countinue to use it for the remaining 6 years of life T5 will cost you $1240-1912 more than LED. Over the remaining 8 years in the second example it is even more.
5 Foot T5
80wx8x10 hoursx365 days=2,336 kWh
Radions at 100%
170wx3x10hpursx365 days = 1,862 kWh
Radions at 50%
85wx3x10hoursx365 days =931 kWh
Savings with LED:
474 kWh/year x $0.12/kWh = $56.88/ year
1405 kWh/year x $0.12/kWh = $168.80/year
At 100%, the LED cost break even is in 7.9 years. At 50% it is in 5.1 years. This analysis ignores the additional costs of heat removal from your home with the T5.
I used your numbers but I've been told T5 should be changed every 6 months rather than 9. Anyway, after 8 years you still have another 6 years of life in the fixture if you use the 100% example. There's 8.5 years left in the 50% example. You can keep using it or sell it. You don't have to upgrade the light if it is working for you.
If you countinue to use it for the remaining 6 years of life T5 will cost you $1240-1912 more than LED. Over the remaining 8 years in the second example it is even more.
Mike in CT
Valuable Member
Just an interesting note. I heard a interview with Sanjay Joshie about switching over to LEDS from MH. One result was that he has to use 3, 300 watt heaters running non stop in the winter to keep his tank warm, while with the MH he used no heaters. The heaters used more power then the amount he saved by using LED's. I'm sure it evens out in summer by not needing a chiller... but still interesting.
jackson6745
Valuable Member
The better light is T5. Better coverage, better growth, better proven results, better price (when you consider coverage). But, softies and LPS are not so picky and leds really make them fluoresce. I would say go with a nice full spectrum LED since it's a mixed tank.
SunnyX
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FWIW, I and many others can get a solid 12 months of use from T5's in an ATI fixture. Yes, 9 months would be optimal in a retrofit situation but you can easily get 12 months out of T5's when they are properly cooled.
The break even point of LED's can be misleading as yes you will break even in say 5 years, but by that time you would have already upgraded to a later model, not to mention the fact that the LED's would have some degradation and loss of output by then. I just cant see anyone running the same LED unit, or it working optimally, 5-7 years on.
Concerning @carolinareefguy :
On a standard 180gl the 5' ATI 8 bulb Sunpower would be the ideal choice. You would be able to grow everything and anything with that light fixture. You wont have to mess with settings nor spend an exorbitant amount of money for an "inferior" lighting system. When I say "inferior" I say so in comparison to what you can achieve with MH and T5.
A T5 combo of ATI Blue+ and ATI Aquablue Special will grow and color corals better than any other system out there. The only other lighting that would beat out the T5 but not produce as nice of colors would be an XM 10K MH.
For an SPS system T5 gets my vote.
SunnyX
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Sanjay spoke of it in a recent Podcast. I don't believe he is using more power now but its almost the same as when he ran MH due to the heaters running constantly. I believe he stated that he was looking to add two more Radions, which would push him over and end up costing more energy than the MH.
TheEngineer
Formerly icecool2
This is one of those existential arguments in the hobby. Same as T5 went through when it was new. No one needs to argue the merit and benefit of LED. It grows corals well and there are tons of successful tanks running under LEDs.
As to the power usage, it simply is not possible to need more power. I have not heard the podcast but physics is physics. MH produce a significant amount of waste heat and that can offset the need for heaters in a tank. The fact remains that the same joules of energy are needed to heat his tank as before. Having heaters in the tank is a significantly more efficient way to heat the tank than convection through air. Switching to LEDs does not increase the amount of power used when looking at the system as a whole unless you add enough LEDs to match the initial power draw of the MH.
As to the power usage, it simply is not possible to need more power. I have not heard the podcast but physics is physics. MH produce a significant amount of waste heat and that can offset the need for heaters in a tank. The fact remains that the same joules of energy are needed to heat his tank as before. Having heaters in the tank is a significantly more efficient way to heat the tank than convection through air. Switching to LEDs does not increase the amount of power used when looking at the system as a whole unless you add enough LEDs to match the initial power draw of the MH.
GlassMunky
2500 Club Member
do what i did and get the best of both worlds 
2 Radion Pro's and 4 T5s
This is over a standard 48" 90G all SPS tank btw
2 Radion Pro's and 4 T5s
This is over a standard 48" 90G all SPS tank btw
SunnyX
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Hello,
While I cant speak for the science I can point you to the Podcast: http://cdn.wso.net/reefthreads/podcasts/rt259.mp3
They talk about the heaters at 24:30. He states that in the winter he has almost 400W of heaters running constantly now that the MH have been removed. In the interview he also states his concerns about the lighting spectrum, coral growth patterns, and that growth under LED is about 80% of what it was under MH. All in all he is happy with the transition.
And yes, I do recall the debate when T5 was taking off. I remember 10 years ago that many told me it would never work but The Germans had already proved T5 to be a success so I was confident in my approach. LED's work and grow corals just fine. But why use an inferior technology when a better one already exists? I'm not talking about heat or expense, I am referring directly to coral growth and color. For the general hobbyist LED cannot yet replicate the results of MH and T5. Im certain the LED's will get there but if I were to make a recommendation on lighting today I would certainly recommend an ATI T5 fixture.
Thank you,
