Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
Mercury spikes are just that - very narrow line spectra, where LEDs offer a broader bandwidth. Spectral tuning with selected LEDs can focus light into bandwidths important to photosynthesis.
LED or T5?
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A. grandis
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I thought LEDs had narrower bandwidth than T5s in a combo. Practically speaking... could we set a LED combo that would offer better spectrum than say a Blue Plus bulb for corals? What would be those LEDs, please?
Please ellaborate more of the "selected LEDs" of your choice. I'm sure many LED lovers here would love to know.
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
If you can program intensity and spectral qualities with T5 lamps comparable to that currently available with LEDs, then more power to you!Dana, would you say that programmable features of LEDs to be more important than light distribution and uniformity of T5s? Or that is just your personal preference? I personally believe that the right combination of photoperiod and intensity/spectrum to be the more important features of any artificial light source over a reef tank. The right On/OFF timed of a constant intensity should be enough for optimal maintenance of the organisms we keep and the control of intensity should be just an addition to the equation.
And if that would be the case, we can easily control intensity with a timer on each T5 channel, or using the dimmable ATI fixture. Just like LEDs.
By the way, there is a T5 fixture that allows control of each pair of bulbs with wireless control.
I appreciate your time here! Thank you!
LED Lamp – Diuna T5 - Pacific Sun EU
ULTIMATE T5 BULB FIXTURE Pacific Sun’s answer to T5 Reef Lighting, the Diuna offers build quality, features and control that the competition can’t match. Thanks to cooled electronic ballasts and high-quality reflectors (anodized aluminum) offers unprecedented power and performance.pacific-sun.eu
I still have an issue with T5 lamp longevity however. If you see a black ring around either end of the tube, this indicates 'sputtering' of the internal electrode, which means part of the electrode is vaporized every time the lamps is lighted, which indicates the entire internal surface of the tube is coated with metals. Once upon a time, it was recommended that fluorescent lamps should be changed after a year's usage (and sometimes less.)
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
I'll put the burden back on you. Show me a fluorescent lamp producing light directly absorbed by Photosystem I's P-700 (and up to 730nm or so.)
I wrote a book back in 1994 - The Captive Reef - and stated almost any light source is capable of promoting photosynthesis within zooxanthellae. Just have to understand the pros and cons of each source. I prefer LEDs, That is not to say othe rlight sources won't work. I've tried them all over the years.
A. grandis
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Well, like I said before, I don't think the programmable intensity is a major aspect of the photoperiod. Meaning that with balance between the photoperiod/ spectrum and intensity offered we can achieve a pretty comfortable environment for the reef tank. IMO the uniformity and spectrum quality/blend, besides the UV from the tubes, are more what I appreciate from T5s. Bulbs like Blue Plus can't be substituted by any LED as far as I know.
I think would be great to list the LEDs you are talking about so the LED lovers would know more how to chose their fixtures?
Yes, I agree with changing the T5s every 12 months at most and that is what I recommend and what I do because practically speaking it's the limit for spectrum changes in most cases, specially for the "white" bulbs. But I change the "blue bulbs" as well. I really appreciate your insight.
A. grandis
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Thanks! I'm not saying that other lights won't work. Nor saying that you have suggested that. What I'm asking is more details of your LED preferences to learn more. That's all. I sure will try to find that book.
Edit:
Did we have T5s back in 1994? Are they the same in spectrum today?
Thanks again!!
Aardvark1134
Well-Known Member
The only issue with LEDs is they are being made wrong...they need more pucks not more watts. Example if you want to use all Kessil to grow your reef you can...but you will have a tons of them in there all runing at 40-50% power because you need alot of them to get the right coverage and stop shadowing. I wish LED compaines would make pucks with half the watts for half the price so I can buy 2x as many of them and get the lighting the way it should be.
The issue with T5s is you have to keep changing them...pray that none shatter and get in your tank and you get this flat look to your tank.
The issue with T5s is you have to keep changing them...pray that none shatter and get in your tank and you get this flat look to your tank.
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Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
My book is long out of print, and is in need of a serious update. It was state-of-the-art in the late 90's but we know so much more since then. I'll have to write a
Did we have T5s in the 90's. Honestly, I don't know. What I do know is that they were not being marketed to reef hobbyists back then. Metal halides, RO, HO, and VHO fluorescents along with Power Compacts (and a smattering of Mercury Vapors) ruled the day. All worked of course, but only when we understood the requirements of the hundreds of zooxanthellae clades (which we didn't and still don't.)
A. grandis
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Thanks to you we understand some of that in regards to zooxanthellae clades! It is an amazing subject and beautiful work you did.
That's what I've meant about the T5s... they use different gas combinations and therefore have different spectrum properties than the T12s and T8s from the golden times. By now I think you don't want to publish your LED preferences. Am I right? Anyway.. thanks again for the great feedback. I would love to hear more and more from your thoughts. It's always a pleasure to read your stuff.
Hey, now I'll wait for the book update. Mahalo!
StatelineReefer
Reef Safe With Caution
Not only did we have T5's in the 90's, but they were a mainstay, however, the light intensities and wavelengths left much to be desired. VHO ballasts and 12 4 foot long bulbs generated an awful lot of heat. The cost of running the lights even on a 7 hour day photoperiod was pretty steep, if I remember right.
LEDs do not generate as much waste heat off of their light production, as such, run more efficient. Longer lifespan and more available wavelengths, specifically tuned to your tank, are definite 'pros' to them, but LEDs also spotlight heavily unless you diffuse the light somehow or use different lenses.
LEDs do not generate as much waste heat off of their light production, as such, run more efficient. Longer lifespan and more available wavelengths, specifically tuned to your tank, are definite 'pros' to them, but LEDs also spotlight heavily unless you diffuse the light somehow or use different lenses.
A. grandis
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Just one more think for the sake of the thread's subject... it is imperative to say that the available T5 ballasts today are well advanced with new ballast technology assuring much better performance and longevity of the bulbs and the cooling systems in fixtures will also improve that as a whole.
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
An update to the Captive Reef is probably not going to happen. I just don't want to spend the next two years of my life writing a text that will be likely outdated the day it is published. Much easier to post on R2R! I can offer my opinions on why a certain diode's bandwidth is preferred at a point in time by a certain zooxanthellae clade (as far as we know.)
Mahalo!
Man, I wonder how 24/7 Reeftime feels! Poor guy was just asking a simple question for a low budget option for his 55g lps/softie tank and he sure got a lot of info!
Almost any light will grow lps/softies. So, it really comes down to your budget, your future plans and the look you want for your tank.
I have two ATI T5 fixtures. But I think anyone will tell you they are not a budget option. If you buy a shop light or a T5 grow light they will definitely be cheaper and work but your tank setup might not look very polished. That's really a personal preference and depends where you plan to show your tank. If you like DYI projects and enjoy doing the research and planning, you can buy the hardware and mount it yourself in some type of canopy/frame. Of course, this information and the skills will come in handy if you stay in the hobby and want to build a more advanced lighting set up in the future.
You also have to take the form factor of your tank into consideration. It's long, narrow and high. Overtime, sometimes people grow tired of the narrow width of the 55g. It can make aquascaping hard. It is also a consideration for choosing a light. Obviously a T5 fixture can fit nicely over a long thin footprint. LED lights come in many different form factors. The one I suggested, the ViparSpectra 300 watt is also long and thin. It is only about 32" long so it will not cover your tank completely. It is also probably the cheapest LED option out there. However, if you hang it at least 12" inches over the tank/waterline you should be fine, especially if you are only growing lps/softies. Also, remember you are probably going to want to leave a few inches free on each side of the tank so you can clean the class. Anyway, it is important to hang LED fixtures like this high in order to reduce the spotlighting effects of the LED's.
Good luck!
Almost any light will grow lps/softies. So, it really comes down to your budget, your future plans and the look you want for your tank.
I have two ATI T5 fixtures. But I think anyone will tell you they are not a budget option. If you buy a shop light or a T5 grow light they will definitely be cheaper and work but your tank setup might not look very polished. That's really a personal preference and depends where you plan to show your tank. If you like DYI projects and enjoy doing the research and planning, you can buy the hardware and mount it yourself in some type of canopy/frame. Of course, this information and the skills will come in handy if you stay in the hobby and want to build a more advanced lighting set up in the future.
You also have to take the form factor of your tank into consideration. It's long, narrow and high. Overtime, sometimes people grow tired of the narrow width of the 55g. It can make aquascaping hard. It is also a consideration for choosing a light. Obviously a T5 fixture can fit nicely over a long thin footprint. LED lights come in many different form factors. The one I suggested, the ViparSpectra 300 watt is also long and thin. It is only about 32" long so it will not cover your tank completely. It is also probably the cheapest LED option out there. However, if you hang it at least 12" inches over the tank/waterline you should be fine, especially if you are only growing lps/softies. Also, remember you are probably going to want to leave a few inches free on each side of the tank so you can clean the class. Anyway, it is important to hang LED fixtures like this high in order to reduce the spotlighting effects of the LED's.
Good luck!
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
Thank you Mono! Debates about lighting are as old as the reef hobby!
I'm honored. Just re-watched your 2016 MACNA video on PAR and Alkalinity this morning. Under 200 PAR for growth, over 200 for color. That's the only sense I can make of it.
Thanks for all the work you share.
Thanks for all the work you share.
Dana Riddle
2500 Club Member
Thank you. The older I get (which is pretty old) the less likely I want to devote a year of my life to figuring out all the puzzles. That isn't to say that I will discontinue research. Just that meaningful MACNA presentations are so time-intensive. I've seen requests from some MACNA presenters that start building their PowerPoint presentations a few weeks before a MACNA, and I wonder why I devote as much time to a presentation as I do (or did.)
There is little "special" about this spectrum..
Except for the mercury green spike.. and possible addition of an IR and UV diode.. this is pretty darn close to an LED match. Thing is most woudn't "bin" all of those to that of an exact degree..
Let's just say "functionally equivalent"
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- The complexity is not really necessary, but demonstrates a point
StatelineReefer
Reef Safe With Caution
From all the presentations I've seen of yours, it's because you hold a deep and meaningful understanding of the subject you present, meaning light and it's effects on scleractinian corals. You make honest observations not prone to hobbyist bias and present facts. In all of this, you have remained humble and forthright, find ways of making even the headiest of scientific examinations on the matter easy to understand to the hobbyist, yet undiluted to the academic in each of us.
In short, even if I have a friend who isn't 'in the photic zone' (Bad humor should not deflect the compliment I'm paying you, but it's there nonetheless) I can point him to one of your presentations and he'll at least come away with a better understanding of the subject.
