LEDs. Forever controversial?

dbrewsky · Mar 22, 2016

Just out of curiosity why do people rely on lux readings for determining proper light intensity for LED/T5/MH etc??? I can put a high pressure sodium bulb for a parking lot light or a film/photo spotlight over my aquarium and make 80,000 lux easy.... but my corals would be toast by the end of the week. I think the key to success with any light source comes down to providing a quality of light with the right spectrum, coverage, and intensity for the corals. I agree that playing with spectrum and intensity to "match our eyes" is where a lot of the difficulty lies as our eyes are horrible calibration tools and on top of that everyone's eyes perceive things differently.

cjd · Mar 22, 2016

esolo16 · Mar 22, 2016

I am fairly new to the hobby (1.5 years) and have only ran LEDs. Right now, I see two issues with them:

1) I hear a lot about tuning LEDs but nobody gives actual advice on tuning. Other then things like watch how your corals react, bleach means too much, brown means too little, etc. There are far too many variables for that to be the only advice for a newcomer like me.

2) Due to so many different settings and variables on LEDs, I have no idea if any issue in my tank is light related or something different.

I know I can't necessarily blame LEDs for these, but more on my lack of experience. It's just why I view LEDs as a more advanced option.

I believe I have finally gotten my lights "tuned", but I still may give t5 a try in the future just to see what they do.

Wildman926 · Mar 22, 2016

I did a test on my tank, again, and had the same results. I went straight led for 2 months, using a combination of BML and 21LEDUSA strips, a total of 4, and I started having color loss on my lps. Mainly and most notibly, reds started turning either pink or dark orange. I pulled a single BML 14k fixture, and added a dual strip T5 HO with ATI Aquablue Special and Blue Plus, and after a week, I can see the difference in color. No other changes. During this time, my sps still had growth but are still small frags, but color change difference was not as noticeable as on my LPS.

aereaus · Mar 22, 2016

Low quality LED results in low quality results. Similar to what someone mentioned about putting high pressure sodium bulbs over their tank just for par/lux.

Spectrum and spread are VERY important and that is why good LEDs cost so much, a lot of R&D goes into the good fixtures. Then there are the copycats who try to swoop in and steal other fixtures design. There are really only 3 LED fixture manufacturers I believe in fully. Ecotech, Kessil and AI. And AI is owned by ecotech. I also like the maxspect stuff but havent seen enough results to truly judge.

aereaus · Mar 22, 2016

Furthermore, when you have guys like Mike Paletta and Sanjay Joshi exclusively using LEDs after theyve been in the hobby 30+ years I would say that the LED technology has arrived.

NanaReefer · Mar 22, 2016

Radion Gen3

cb684 · Mar 22, 2016

aereaus said:
Furthermore, when you have guys like Mike Paletta and Sanjay Joshi exclusively using LEDs after theyve been in the hobby 30+ years I would say that the LED technology has arrived.

In the last video I watched they were having problems with the LEDs. Maybe that was an old video and now they figured it out.

cb684 · Mar 22, 2016

esolo16 said:
I am fairly new to the hobby (1.5 years) and have only ran LEDs. Right now, I see two issues with them:

1) I hear a lot about tuning LEDs but nobody gives actual advice on tuning. Other then things like watch how your corals react, bleach means too much, brown means too little, etc. There are far too many variables for that to be the only advice for a newcomer like me.

2) Due to so many different settings and variables on LEDs, I have no idea if any issue in my tank is light related or something different.

I know I can't necessarily blame LEDs for these, but more on my lack of experience. It's just why I view LEDs as a more advanced option.

I believe I have finally gotten my lights "tuned", but I still may give t5 a try in the future just to see what they do.

What worked for me is to use 100/15 or 100/20 (Blues, Royal blues, UV / cool whites, Reds and Greens). Most of the fixtures will allow you to one way or another to reach this proportion.
Edit: I adjust the intensity using a PAR meter.

NanaReefer · Mar 22, 2016

cb684 said:
In the last video I watched they were having problems with the LEDs. Maybe that was an old video and now they figured it out.

Maybe you should provide more info before making statements like this. A link to said video would help [emoji6]

cb684 · Mar 22, 2016

NanaReefer said:
Maybe you should provide more info before making statements like this. A link to said video would help [emoji6]

Sure... I thought most had seen this anyways. And as I said it is 3 years-old (somewhat old). Maybe they are happy with LEDs now.

Mike in CT · Mar 22, 2016

Sanjay reported mixed results so far, and interestingly no reduction in electricity costs because he needed so many LED fixtures to cover his tank so he would not have shadows, plus the fact he now has to use aprox 600 watts of heater to keep the tank warm enough in the winter, while as before the halides kept it warm enough.

JBNY · Mar 22, 2016

So count me as one of those people who is staying with MH and not planning on going the LED route right now. For me, yes I do see issues that still need to be worked out. I am talking specifically about using LED on an SPS tank here.

1) LED for SPS tank heavy with acropora it is still hit or miss, many many people are still getting poor growth, heck most people only have little bitty frags in their tanks that never seem to grow up into colonies.

2) LED are very expensive. a lot of SPS tanks are using the same if not more electricity for LED as they were for MH. For me it something like $8,000 to move the LED. with no electrical cost savings and having my heater run more. My heaters chew up 9amps when running, I don't need them running more.

3) Shading. Still an issue that anyone running LED on an SPS tank will tell you. To overcome this people are using T5 paired with the LED. It's a good solution but just adds more cost and electrical usage.

For LPS, button polyps, and softies, yes LED are great go for it. For SPS, LED still needs some work IMO.

So for me I don't see a compelling reason yet. MH and T5 are cheap, well established, look beautiful, and get great results.

aereaus · Mar 22, 2016

cb684 said:
In the last video I watched they were having problems with the LEDs. Maybe that was an old video and now they figured it out.

Must have been. Pretty sure i know the vid youre talking about. That was in 2011-12

NanaReefer · Mar 22, 2016

Here's something to consider. It's all in the eye of the beholder! I've been using nothing but LED's for the last 2yrs. Just got a Radion Gen3, running now for a week. Way cool that they have Temp Plates.
To me my corals look awesome. To me I'm getting great growth.
I am a rare duck because I could care less what anyone here, there or anywhere else thinks about my tank.
Some want great color. But you and I have different opinions on what great color is. Some want great growth. But again our opinions will differ here too.
Sadly so many think of this hobby as a competition. Well to some of us it's not.
There is IMO nothing controversial about LED's. Except to those who can't, don't, won't use them.

aereaus · Mar 22, 2016

I would post my results but as I dont have an sps dominated tank (i do have some though) i will post my buddies. He has some of the most gorgeously colored colonies I have ever seen.

cb684 · Mar 22, 2016

aereaus said:
Must have been. Pretty sure i know the vid youre talking about. That was in 2011-12

I do not doubt it. As I stated before, in my experience LEDs grow and color corals including SPS, but I have better results with T5s. If I owned a LFS I and somebody wanted to keep SPSs, I would only recommend LEDs if it was a more seasoned reefer but not for the novice (at least the fixtures we have available now). Well, maybe Kessils for a shallow tank is ok for a novice (it is hard to mess up when using kessils, the only problem I find is the low intensity). The ones starting on the hobby now will have plenty other variables to work out until success is reached. They do not need the extra challenge. Again, that is just my opinion.

JBNY · Mar 22, 2016

aereaus said:
I would post my results but as I dont have an sps dominated tank (i do have some though) i will post my buddies. He has some of the most gorgeously colored colonies I have ever seen.

That looks awesome, how big is that tank?

Greenstreet.1 · Mar 22, 2016

I HAD 99 PROBLEMS BUT LEDS NEVER BEEN ONE.

aereaus · Mar 22, 2016

cb684 said:
I do not doubt it. As I stated before, in my experience LEDs grow and color corals including SPS, but I have better results with T5s. If I owned a LFS I and somebody wanted to keep SPSs, I would only recommend LEDs if it was a more seasoned reefer but not for the novice (at least the fixtures we have available now). Well, maybe Kessils for a shallow tank is ok for a novice (it is hard to mess up when using kessils, the only problem I find is the low intensity). The ones starting on the hobby now will have plenty other variables to work out until success is reached. They do not need the extra challenge. Again, that is just my opinion.

Agreed. LEDs present enormous challenges even to expert reefers but the adage of less light is better than too much applies. If you use that and very slowly bring up the intensity it can help.