LEDS to grow acros
- Thread starter dendroman
- Start date
- Tagged users None
vasinvictor
Community Member
I know of many on here that are using LEDs for their acros and having a lot of success. I can't speak for what LEDs they are using...but I can speak for my MH 2x 250 14k Phoenix bulbs that are 10in above the water on a 125 gallon and having success.
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
I've been growing frags using LEDs for over 5 years with great results.
All you need is the Royal Blue or 450nm. I like to Mix the Cree XT-E Royal Blue with the XT-E Cool White in a 2:1 ratio.
Bill
All you need is the Royal Blue or 450nm. I like to Mix the Cree XT-E Royal Blue with the XT-E Cool White in a 2:1 ratio.
Bill
that novice guy
Well-Known Member
Then why do people use like green and red and uv during the daytime and i thought UV was just for nighttime
Sent from my LG-MS770 using Reef2Reef Aquarium Forum mobile app
Because 450nm only hits the absorption peak of 1/10 of a corals chlororphyll, or chlorophyll c. Chlorophyll a, which outnumbers Chlororphyll C 10:1, has an absorption peak of 430nm. Therefore, violets are an essential part of coral growth. You do not need many either, about 4-6 for every 2 feet of tank should do it. They may look dim, but to put that in perspective, your eye percieves green about 55 times brighter than it does violet. Red, 630nm, hits a peak for chlorophyll c, and 660nm for chlorophyll, a, see my comment on violets. UV, or below 400nm, is typically not used. It is just the term most people use for violets, TV, or true violet, is a term now picking up, and refers to the 400-430nm diodes. I prefer nuetral whites, cool whites are quite lacking in their spectral curve. I have said it plenty of times, you miss a lot of spectrum with cool whites, just look at the data sheet for both diodes, the difference is pretty big. As for the look, I have no problems with cool whites, IF they are used in conjunction with warm whites, on separate dimmers. That way, one can make the light look as warm of cool as they want, with the ability to have that large spectral curve at the same time.
Last edited:
that novice guy
Well-Known Member
So you want to also have green red UV and any other color of led incorporated I'm your setup
Sent from my LG-MS770 using Reef2Reef Aquarium Forum mobile app
Sent from my LG-MS770 using Reef2Reef Aquarium Forum mobile app
not any other color, but another one I forgot was cool blue, or 470nm. That spectrum hits the absorption peak of peridinin and neo peridinin, which will flouresce a brick red color, and are present in all photosynthetic corals.
If you are looking for optimal growth and visual appearance then what Logan describes is the path to follow. It is called a full-spectrum build and is the direction many commercial manufacturers are heading. I have my own diy fixture that started with Cool White, Royal Blue and Cool Blue, but over the last couple of years I have added varying amounts of True Violet, Warm White, more Royal Blue and 3-ups (Deep Red-Cool Blue-Cyan). I think that my tank looks incredible and growth is pretty good. There is definitely a settling in period when corals are first introduced to the LEDs though, but they seem to adapt within a few weeks.
FYI, I don't know of anyone using real uv LEDs and there is a study that suggests it damages the corals rather than nourishing them.
Here are several graphs showing the wavelength requirements of corals...
FYI, I don't know of anyone using real uv LEDs and there is a study that suggests it damages the corals rather than nourishing them.
Here are several graphs showing the wavelength requirements of corals...
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
A lot of good info here.
My approach is what looks best and whats most cost effective.
There is a lot of debate but most of it comes down to who is better looking Ginger or Mary Ann...If you dont know do not google Ginger v Mary Ann Pie Fight....
Corals are very adaptable to different lights as long as 400-500nm is available....I like to tighten this down to 420-480nm as you primary grow spectrum with 450nm touching almost every aspect of photosynthesis in coral.
Its good to see the debate change from do LEDs grow coral to which Mix grows best. Logan has some great points but given the intensity of the Violet UV LEDs available I still consider them the Spice to excite certain pigments for looks. I've been growing coral without these for years and have come to the opinion that they are good for growth but compared the intensity of the Cree XT-E, they are more of a gimmick in some fixtures that want to advertise "Full Spectrum". You really need at least 8 to make a slight difference in looks and 4 XT-E Royal Blue provide more PAR at the same current.
Below are some pics of a presentation we have done that may help.
Bill
My approach is what looks best and whats most cost effective.
There is a lot of debate but most of it comes down to who is better looking Ginger or Mary Ann...If you dont know do not google Ginger v Mary Ann Pie Fight....
Corals are very adaptable to different lights as long as 400-500nm is available....I like to tighten this down to 420-480nm as you primary grow spectrum with 450nm touching almost every aspect of photosynthesis in coral.
Its good to see the debate change from do LEDs grow coral to which Mix grows best. Logan has some great points but given the intensity of the Violet UV LEDs available I still consider them the Spice to excite certain pigments for looks. I've been growing coral without these for years and have come to the opinion that they are good for growth but compared the intensity of the Cree XT-E, they are more of a gimmick in some fixtures that want to advertise "Full Spectrum". You really need at least 8 to make a slight difference in looks and 4 XT-E Royal Blue provide more PAR at the same current.
Below are some pics of a presentation we have done that may help.
Bill
Last edited:
A lot of good info here.
My approach is what looks best and whats most cost effective.
There is a lot of debate but most of it comes down to who is better looking Ginger or Mary Ann...If you dont know do not google Ginger v Mary Ann Pie Fight....
Corals are very adaptable to different lights as long as 400-500nm is available....I like to tighten this down to 420-480nm as you primary grow spectrum with 450nm touching almost every aspect of photosynthesis in coral.
Its good to see the debate change from do LEDs grow coral to which Mix grows best. Logan has some great points but given the intensity of the Violet UV LEDs available I still consider them the Spice to excite certain pigments for looks. I've been growing coral without these for years and have come to the opinion that they are good for growth but compared the intensity of the Cree XT-E, they are more of a gimmick in some fixtures that want to advertise "Full Spectrum". You really need at least 8 to make a slight difference in looks and 4 XT-E Royal Blue provide more PAR at the same current.
Below are some pics of a presentation we have done that may help.
Bill
Bill, where are you getting the last chart? Mostly what you will see is something like this:
A sharp drop in absorption after 430nm, but a little bit lower than 430nm. and Don't forget the peak in the reds, which may not be present in deeper waters, but certainly can make an impact on your corals, so it is a good spectrum to include. Brightness depends entirely on the violets used, we have some pretty bright ones, not as bright as a Cree XT-E, but not a lot of 3watt chips are anyways. There are also plenty of dim ones, pretty much any low quality chip, or any chip below 420nm, mostly because of visual perception by us. I did a little experiment with 430nm violets and 450nm royals, with the royals, I saw colors like purples and greens. With the same corals, but with 430nm diodes, I saw pink, and yellows, and darker greens. So they definitely hit different chlorophyll peaks, as has been shown in numerous studies. While you may not see the violets, with 8 430nm violets, you can and will burn some corals if they are on high enough. I use about 4 or more for every 2 feet of tank, and have had some improvement vs. having no violets in both growth and color. Focusing on just 30nm has not worked well in the past, look at all of the people claiming LEDs don't work because they got bad colors with their rb/b/cw fixtures. Yes, you will get decent growth, but the color is just not there. I now reccomend (and I believe I already said this) neutral whites, or a mix of CW and WW. CW are very lacking in spectrum, but have a 450nm peak. So while you will grow corals okay, you will not have the best colors, or growth, that can be achieved with the right combo of LED colors.
Last edited:
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
Logan
A lot of the information was provided to me by Dana Riddle.
He mentioned research he came across that pointed to a reduction in growth under too much RED or 630-660nm. Some of this is controversial but recently I saw lecture siting photo-inhibition and PAR values. The Professor mentioned a fabulous SPS set up using 1000s of watts of Radium MHs were similar setups using different bulbs would fry the corals. His point was different colours like red and green may over task the pigments in the coral and if too intense are counter productive. He also noted the Radium MH is limited in these colours.
Some Cool whites my be limited but the Cree Cool offers a wide range of colours that can be varied according to bins. I've had excellent results over the years using only Royal Blue and Cool White. I've also compared properly binned Cree XT-E Fixtures to Bridgelux fixtures and was very pleased to see a better colour pop than "Full Spectrum" Fixtures using UV, Reds and Greens with Cool Whites Blues and Royal Blues.
Claims that LEDs do not grow coral as well as other lights are false as long as the proper LEDs are used in the right intensity. I've had excellent results using only the 450nm without. Recently I added some 410-420nm and did notice only a slight improvement in colour but I had to use 24 over a 72" tank to notice them. Overall growth has been the same but this is my SPS tank. I'm sure studies are being conducted with a control to find out whats best.
On an interesting note I've had researchers in the chemical industry ask us for the 450nm were 460nm would not work. I sure this frequency is very popular especially in remote phosphor applications. It funny that the LEDs manufacturers never intended the Royal Blue to be the primary grow LEDs in most fixtures.
Bill
A lot of the information was provided to me by Dana Riddle.
He mentioned research he came across that pointed to a reduction in growth under too much RED or 630-660nm. Some of this is controversial but recently I saw lecture siting photo-inhibition and PAR values. The Professor mentioned a fabulous SPS set up using 1000s of watts of Radium MHs were similar setups using different bulbs would fry the corals. His point was different colours like red and green may over task the pigments in the coral and if too intense are counter productive. He also noted the Radium MH is limited in these colours.
Some Cool whites my be limited but the Cree Cool offers a wide range of colours that can be varied according to bins. I've had excellent results over the years using only Royal Blue and Cool White. I've also compared properly binned Cree XT-E Fixtures to Bridgelux fixtures and was very pleased to see a better colour pop than "Full Spectrum" Fixtures using UV, Reds and Greens with Cool Whites Blues and Royal Blues.
Claims that LEDs do not grow coral as well as other lights are false as long as the proper LEDs are used in the right intensity. I've had excellent results using only the 450nm without. Recently I added some 410-420nm and did notice only a slight improvement in colour but I had to use 24 over a 72" tank to notice them. Overall growth has been the same but this is my SPS tank. I'm sure studies are being conducted with a control to find out whats best.
On an interesting note I've had researchers in the chemical industry ask us for the 450nm were 460nm would not work. I sure this frequency is very popular especially in remote phosphor applications. It funny that the LEDs manufacturers never intended the Royal Blue to be the primary grow LEDs in most fixtures.
Bill
I have also heard of research (not released quite yet) showing that reds increase growth. As far as photo inhibition goes, I am growing mushrooms under 660nm reds and 450nm royals in a 5:1 ratio just fine. On seeing more pop out of Cree fixtures, that is due to higher intensity royal blues. Bridgelux blues are not the most powerful out there, the spectrum is the same with the right bins, which we make an effort to use. Cree cool whites are very limited, just look at the data sheets. Nuetral whites, or at least adding some warm whites, will add far superior color spectrum to an LED fixture of Cool Whites alone. I have seen this first hand, it is not only about growth, we figured that out for the most part,What the higher CRI whites do, is contribute to colors in corals. When I switched to nuetrals, I noticed more yellows in my corals, specifically my
pink lemonade colony. I also noticed more purples, in an unnamed milli, and in some pink zoas. There is also a yellow stripe developing in my bleeding apple scoly, which had never been there under mh, or under only cool white and royal blue LEDs.
Bill and Logan you are adding much wsidom to the discussion but you need to differentiate between the two fundemental concepts for lighting :
1. What grows corals the best
2. What is most aesthetically pleasing to the eye
You are mentioning these concepts, but mixing them together as support for your specific set-ups. IMO you need to treat the topics separately.
1. What grows corals the best
2. What is most aesthetically pleasing to the eye
You are mentioning these concepts, but mixing them together as support for your specific set-ups. IMO you need to treat the topics separately.
slayeroftheshadow
Active Member
I've gotta agree with Logan's depth and knowledge of the growth. I'd say the TV & WW complete the term in actual growth, development and look of "full spectrum" that standard 460 & cool whites cannot compare to.
I've used both side by side and see overall better growth in both LPS & SPS via the full spectrum described by Logan.
Sent Via the R2R Forum APP
I've used both side by side and see overall better growth in both LPS & SPS via the full spectrum described by Logan.
Sent Via the R2R Forum APP
Yes, but if can grow coral, but not color it, and your tank looks like windex, would you use LEDs? I see too many people denote LEDs, because while they could do #1 just fine, #2 was not there. Therefore, you have to cover both aspects of lighting, they tie into each other quite a bit, and you need both factors to have a decent light. Personal experience is just another way to back up what you are saying, and it shows some experience on the topic. Used in conjunction with scientific evidence, what you see as a reefer can tie in correctly with a discussion.
Last edited:
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
As far as which grows best its a close race between Reef Spectrum and Full Spectrum with the difference being only a couple of Reds and a few Violet. Without a control in a scientific study that can be duplicated you are relying on opinions of owners and how well they maintain their reef environment.
When it comes to looks a lot has to do with which LEDs and which specific bins you choose.
I've noticed two major camps Bridgelux and Cree with a few Luxion fans.
You cannot compare their looks like apples to apples as their Cool Whites produce a slightly different spectrum and the Cree XT-E is more powerful so it has to be balanced differently than the Bridgelux. I personally prefer the looks of a well binned Cree Fixture but have also seen well done Bridgelux Fixtures. I've also seen flat with a slight yellow looking Chinese fixtures using either the Cree or Bridgelux. In all cases the owners say they grow coral.
At the end of the day if you choose a quality fixture that makes your corals look good you will be shooting better than PAR:wink:
Bill
billyzbear
New Member
I've been planning on upgrading my led lights. I'm looking to add 24 410-420nm leds over 6'x2'x20" tall tank. Is 24 enough? Would 48 be too many? They are double chips at ledfedy.
