Lemonpeel angelfish aggression towards tang!

[AydenLincoln]

I just added a white tail bristletooth tang to my 75-gallon and the lemonpeel angelfish is being very aggressive to the tang and chasing him around/nipping at him. He has been the only similar size fish for a few months other than a foxface he showed no interest in. Is this normal? They are around the same size. I know angelfish aren’t compatible typically but this isn’t two angelfish.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Did you use an acclimation box or similar to try and let the tank mates adapt to the new guy?

Edit. Some just have an attitude problem no matter what you do

 

[AydenLincoln]

Did you use an acclimation box or similar to try and let the tank mates adapt to the new guy?

No. I just put him right in. I probably should’ve now seeing his aggression.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

No. I just put him right in. I probably should’ve now seeing his aggression.

Hopefully someone can offer good advice. I’ve had much better luck using acclimation boxes than anything else. I don’t know if the mirror on the outside of the tank works great with angelfish or not. Moving rocks around was never an option for me but I have placed some pvc pipe fittings and pipe pieces all over temporarily to mix things up for territorial aggression and had decent luck

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just added a white tail bristletooth tang to my 75-gallon and the lemonpeel angelfish is being very aggressive to the tang and chasing him around/nipping at him. He has been the only similar size fish for a few months other than a foxface he showed no interest in. Is this normal? They are around the same size. I know angelfish aren’t compatible typically but this isn’t two angelfish.

Tang is one you want to quarantine. Lemon peel generally not aggressive but if it continues in next 48 hrs, consider isolation for at least 7 days before damage occurs to fish

 

[AydenLincoln]

Tang is one you want to quarantine. Lemon peel generally not aggressive but if it continues in next 48 hrs, consider isolation for at least 7 days before damage occurs to fish

I did quarantine the tang for over a month with no signs of disease and he did get API General Cure for a short time. I did recently notice these marks as of today before adding him. Any idea? Is this the start of HLLE?

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Tang is one you want to quarantine. Lemon peel generally not aggressive but if it continues in next 48 hrs, consider isolation for at least 7 days before damage occurs to fish

And what would be a good way for her to reintroduce the tang afterwards as well as how to handle aggression if it continues after that?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I did quarantine the tang for over a month with no signs of disease and he did get API General Cure for a short time. I did recently notice these marks as of today before adding him. Any idea? Is this the start of HLLE?

That’s an injury/scar from injury likely associated with the behavior you mentioned with the angel

 

[AydenLincoln]

That’s an injury/scar from injury likely associated with the behavior you mentioned with the angel

Okay. He actually had it before I put him in so part of me thinks I did it to him by accident with the net trying to capture him and him scraping against things in his little isolation tank. I had to kind of go chasing him and he was not happy and he got a little stuck in the net. I hope it heals it doesn’t look too bad. I will monitor him.

 

[littlefoxx]

No. I just put him right in. I probably should’ve now seeing his aggression.

I would pull him out and put him in a no no box is what I call them. A week in there should change his attitude

 

[i cant think]

I just added a white tail bristletooth tang to my 75-gallon and the lemonpeel angelfish is being very aggressive to the tang and chasing him around/nipping at him. He has been the only similar size fish for a few months other than a foxface he showed no interest in. Is this normal? They are around the same size. I know angelfish aren’t compatible typically but this isn’t two angelfish.

Personally I’d let it diffuse, what people are missing here is tangs and angels are very similar bodied fish and both can (and will) stand up for themselves. This to me sounds like a case of ‘you’re new, why are you in my territory?!’ I recently introduced a Coral Beauty with 2 other angels and had a similar issue - Battling eachother for the first two days. Now we’re 5 days in and that aggression is gone. You’ve added a fish to a tank with a sorted hierarchy, these guys are going to think of the tang as a threat as it’s a similar size and body shape to the lemon peel.

And if you’re wondering, here’s the Coral Beauty the day after aggression completely dissolved;

And that is a wound on her likely from darting through rocks with the other guys however I’m keeping an eye on it just in case.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Personally I’d let it diffuse, what people are missing here is tangs and angels are very similar bodied fish and both can (and will) stand up for themselves. This to me sounds like a case of ‘you’re new, why are you in my territory?!’ I recently introduced a Coral Beauty with 2 other angels and had a similar issue - Battling eachother for the first two days. Now we’re 5 days in and that aggression is gone. You’ve added a fish to a tank with a sorted hierarchy, these guys are going to think of the tang as a threat as it’s a similar size and body shape to the lemon peel.

And if you’re wondering, here’s the Coral Beauty the day after aggression completely dissolved;

And that is a wound on her likely from darting through rocks with the other guys however I’m keeping an eye on it just in case.

Thank you so much I figured this.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Personally I’d let it diffuse, what people are missing here is tangs and angels are very similar bodied fish and both can (and will) stand up for themselves. This to me sounds like a case of ‘you’re new, why are you in my territory?!’ I recently introduced a Coral Beauty with 2 other angels and had a similar issue - Battling eachother for the first two days. Now we’re 5 days in and that aggression is gone. You’ve added a fish to a tank with a sorted hierarchy, these guys are going to think of the tang as a threat as it’s a similar size and body shape to the lemon peel.

And if you’re wondering, here’s the Coral Beauty the day after aggression completely dissolved;

And that is a wound on her likely from darting through rocks with the other guys however I’m keeping an eye on it just in case.

Except just dumping in new tank mates and letting things quote diffuse with zero interaction can lead to injury or worse and is what most of us would call cruel and unnecessary

 

[i cant think]

Except just dumping in new tank mates and letting things quote diffuse with zero interaction can lead to injury or worse and is what most of us would call cruel and unnecessary

The hierarchy will be solved in some way or another, this ‘cruel’ and ‘unnecessary’ way has never found me issues. Do you think your local LFS goes through the acclimation box phase? No, it’s more than likely those fish are floated for 30 minutes then thrown into the tank.

I do this same procedure with both my tanks, it’s never failed me in 10+ years.
You expect wounds like this all the time with or without an acclimation box;

The main thing to do would be adding a mirror to the side of the tank, this will absolutely allow for aggression to diffuse faster but I’ve only ever used it once (With the Coral Beauty - Purely because of the price she was being my most expensive fish I’ve ever brought at over £200 ($254). I don’t know about you but I know for a fact all fish can stand for themselves to some level without interception and angels and tangs are the two that I’ve found will stand up for them selves and pull the biggest fights.

 

[i cant think]

Thank you so much I figured this.

If I’m honest, most people overreact with introducing fish. Yes there will be aggression but the hierarchy will be built with or without an acclimation box.
If we go the route of separation from the tank, that Angel will be separated for 7 days and then go in and the situation swaps with the tang beating on the Angel.

There will always be a territorial dispute in some way, some cases are worse than others but they will all disperse eventually (whether that’s 3 days in or not).

 

[blaxsun]

I find overfeeding seaweed (numerous, separate rocks) is a great distraction.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

The hierarchy will be solved in some way or another, this ‘cruel’ and ‘unnecessary’ way has never found me issues. Do you think your local LFS goes through the acclimation box phase? No, it’s more than likely those fish are floated for 30 minutes then thrown into the tank.

I do this same procedure with both my tanks, it’s never failed me in 10+ years.
You expect wounds like this all the time with or without an acclimation box;

The main thing to do would be adding a mirror to the side of the tank, this will absolutely allow for aggression to diffuse faster but I’ve only ever used it once (With the Coral Beauty - Purely because of the price she was being my most expensive fish I’ve ever brought at over £200 ($254). I don’t know about you but I know for a fact all fish can stand for themselves to some level without interception and angels and tangs are the two that I’ve found will stand up for them selves and pull the biggest fights.

Natural selection, great. We can, and should do better. I see where you stand. Cheap fish, who cares….I spent $254 I’ll try to do something.

 

[i cant think]

Natural selection, great. We can, and should do better. I see where you stand. Cheap fish, who cares….I spent $254 I’ll try to do something.

Just going to say this;
None of my fish are ‘cheap’ anymore, in fact most of them go for over 100.

And yes, I allow nature to do its thing as it always will (With or without interception). It’s the way I reef and always will, I don’t Quarantine (and many say that’s a big no-no), I don’t use acclimation boxes, I don’t use anything other than feeding and keeping ontop of the natural life on my rocks. Each form feeds another fish (Sponges are my 3 angels’ love, algaes are for my Fox and Tang and also Angels, ect). Ontop of all this I keep a very varied diet to keep my fish as fat as possible. A well fed fish is going to feel less threatened by a newbie. But as I have been saying;
I wouldn’t intercept it as that could make it worse.

 

[blaxsun]

Just going to say this;
None of my fish are ‘cheap’ anymore, in fact most of them go for over 100.

And yes, I allow nature to do its thing as it always will (With or without interception). It’s the way I reef and always will, I don’t Quarantine (and many say that’s a big no-no), I don’t use acclimation boxes, I don’t use anything other than feeding and keeping ontop of the natural life on my rocks. Each form feeds another fish (Sponges are my 3 angels’ love, algaes are for my Fox and Tang and also Angels, ect). Ontop of all this I keep a very varied diet to keep my fish as fat as possible. A well fed fish is going to feel less threatened by a newbie. But as I have been saying;
I wouldn’t intercept it as that could make it worse.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Fish can and do decide to challenge the "pecking order" with or without my intervention. Friends today - competition tomorrow...

I also feed my fish well and feed them often. While this doesn't always eliminate every issue, it does tend to minimize or at least reduce the intensity of negative interactions.

 

[pepper89]

Natural selection, great. We can, and should do better. I see where you stand. Cheap fish, who cares….I spent $254 I’ll try to do something.

I kind of get both sides. It's like any pet, and I have tons of all kinds. If you just "throw" them together you're gonna end up with fights and aggression, but if you are too cautious and try to "acclimate" them too much and don't allow natural behaviors, it can cause aggression in a completely different way. For example, I have a lot of dogs, when we get a new one we spend a good few days to a week introducing them and giving them time to get to know each other before they are left alone, to prevent anyone from getting hurt. Though, you gotta let them growl at each other, nip and bear teeth, or at least show their dislike/unhappiness in their natural way, or they end up with complexes that make them more aggressive without warning signs. Now they all get along really well, though we get growing from time to time, they also know how to respect each other's space/boundaries/etc.

In some ways, you do I think need to at least give them time, or the right setup to have a chance to get to know each other safely, but at some point, you do need to let them just figure it out on their own.

Think about it this way, what if you were upset with someone that you were forced to share a room with; you were yelling at them telling them not to steal your stuff and invading your space. But whoever put you in this room keeps getting in trouble for "yelling" or "showing aggression", and you keep getting put in a box for it. Would you feel that is any more morally ethical?