Leopard Wrasse Death - Microscope Review

[ReefHunter006]

I put five videos of a gill cut and skin scrape of a leopard wrasse that died less than 45 minutes before video was taken.

I saw one possible issue in picture section. Please take a look and let me know if you see anything.

Microscope Video

Pictures

 

[vetteguy53081]

I put five videos of a gill cut and skin scrape of a leopard wrasse that died less than 45 minutes before video was taken.

I saw one possible issue in picture section. Please take a look and let me know if you see anything.

Microscope Video

Pictures

Some of these organisms can have shown up after death but one you mention looks like a work and possible non-parasitic. As @Jay Hemdal deals with this and manages a public aquarium, he can expand on this

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

It is really difficult to analyze microscope images online - not knowing the magnification, not being able to change the focus, etc., all makes it tough.

That said, I did not see any parasites in any of these images. Bacteria would be too small to really see except maybe under oil immersion, and then, you wouldn’t know if they were good or bad.

What were the symptoms that the fish was showing before it died?

Jay

 

[ReefHunter006]

It is really difficult to analyze microscope images online - not knowing the magnification, not being able to change the focus, etc., all makes it tough.

That said, I did not see any parasites in any of these images. Bacteria would be too small to really see except maybe under oil immersion, and then, you wouldn’t know if they were good or bad.

What were the symptoms that the fish was showing before it died?

Jay

rapid breathing and twitching that then appeared to turn into their neurological disease.

Not the Copperband in the same isolation tank is twitching and stopped eatting. So I was thinking flukes or something. Specially with the first picture of that weird hook thing.

The mag is 250-400. I didn’t see anything in the gills that could confirm it though.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

rapid breathing and twitching that then appeared to turn into their neurological disease.

Not the Copperband in the same isolation tank is twitching and stopped eatting. So I was thinking flukes or something. Specially with the first picture of that weird hook thing.

The mag is 250-400. I didn’t see anything in the gills that could confirm it though.

Yes, I saw the thing in the first pic - the "hook" just doesn't resemble any parasite that I know of, and the whole thing looks sort of flattened. Artifacts are a big issue with microscopes - you need to rule out a lot of extraneous material.

I use a lower magnification (60 to 100x) and I look for motion. Flukes will move on the slide, as will many protozoans. I then look for how common something is - if I just see one of them, even if it is a parasite, it didn't cause the disease. If I see hundreds of things in a field of view, that is more likely the cause of death.

Jay

 

[ReefHunter006]

Yes, I saw the thing in the first pic - the "hook" just doesn't resemble any parasite that I know of, and the whole thing looks sort of flattened. Artifacts are a big issue with microscopes - you need to rule out a lot of extraneous material.

I use a lower magnification (60 to 100x) and I look for motion. Flukes will move on the slide, as will many protozoans. I then look for how common something is - if I just see one of them, even if it is a parasite, it didn't cause the disease. If I see hundreds of things in a field of view, that is more likely the cause of death.

Jay

How conclusive would you take this information that the fish are ich and fluke free? There are 15 other fish houses in this isolation tank. They have been out of qt two weeks now but I am skeptical of adding them to the main display. But Inhave a second problem and that I leave for an International trip in 6 days.

I had to tear down and re qt close to 60 fish over the last two months and these are the last of the batch.

Recently the hippo tang developed viral nodules I assume because after doing a scape over the white spots no ich showed up.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

How conclusive would you take this information that the fish are ich and fluke free? There are 15 other fish houses in this isolation tank. They have been out of qt two weeks now but I am skeptical of adding them to the main display. But Inhave a second problem and that I leave for an International trip in 6 days.

I had to tear down and re qt close to 60 fish over the last two months and these are the last of the batch.

Recently the hippo tang developed viral nodules I assume because after doing a scape over the white spots no ich showed up.

When to move fish after QT is always a guess and contains some risk. Towards the end of my public aquarium career, the value of the fish in our main tropical marine system was so great that I pretty much wouldn’t risk moving new fish into it if there had been a loss in the QT within the past 45 days. I had some fish in QT for six months!
The leopard wrasse dying is the issue here. There are some viral and bacterial diseases that treatments during quarantine just won’t stop. If you move those fish out now, you risk carrying over anything the wrasse had.
That said, these wrasses are really tough to get to thrive, and they often die from non-contagious issues.

Jay

 

[ReefHunter006]

When to move fish after QT is always a guess and contains some risk. Towards the end of my public aquarium career, the value of the fish in our main tropical marine system was so great that I pretty much wouldn’t risk moving new fish into it if there had been a loss in the QT within the past 45 days. I had some fish in QT for six months!
The leopard wrasse dying is the issue here. There are some viral and bacterial diseases that treatments during quarantine just won’t stop. If you move those fish out now, you risk carrying over anything the wrasse had.
That said, these wrasses are really tough to get to thrive, and they often die from non-contagious issues.

Jay

I think I am just going to throw copper into the observation tank up to 2.2ish ppm and hope that by the time I return from my 10 day trip the rock and sand hasn’t absorbed it enough to where the fish will start to get overwhelmed if it is ich or velvet.

Then I can start a new 6 week qt at full strength when I return. Just need to do the best I can to make sure they can survive while I’m out of town.

Let me know if you can think of a better approach.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I think I am just going to throw copper into the observation tank up to 2.2ish ppm and hope that by the time I return from my 10 day trip the rock and sand hasn’t absorbed it enough to where the fish will start to get overwhelmed if it is ich or velvet.

Then I can start a new 6 week qt at full strength when I return. Just need to do the best I can to make sure they can survive while I’m out of town.

Let me know if you can think of a better approach.

If I’m following the timeline here, you should not need to run a full quarantine, just observational for 14 to 45 days (depending on your risk tolerance).
Jay

 

[ReefHunter006]

If I’m following the timeline here, you should not need to run a full quarantine, just observational for 14 to 45 days (depending on your risk tolerance).
Jay

Agreed, but since I will be gone the next 10 days I thought it best to put some copper in the tank incase something hasn’t popped yet instead of it showing up while I’m gone and can’t do anything.