Let's take a poll on paraguard

[jeff williams]

This post is to get feed back on seachems paraguard. It's suppose to treat ectoparasites viral bacterial and fungal issues but I would like to focus on parisitic. Has anyone treated ick or velvet successfully with paraguard? If so how long did you treat? Which method bath or treat in qt or DT ? did you use any other products or treatments concurrently with the paraguard? Let's see if we can compile an informal list about PARAGUARD.

 

[melypr1985]

Paraguard isn't going to cure any parasitic problems. I've seen several people try and it ended badly.... they would change to copper or CP instead.

 

[sc50964]

I've used it as my go-to broad spectrum medication for all in-coming fish. Specific to ich and velvet, my experience is that it's effective to ich when it's only at the beginning stage with just a few noticeable white spots but not effective beyond that. It's not effective against velvet. I would use cupramine or coppersafe to treat specific parasitic problem such as ich and velvet.

 

[Humblefish]

I've used it as my go-to broad spectrum medication for all in-coming fish. Specific to ich and velvet, my experience is that it's effective to ich when it's only at the beginning stage with just a few noticeable white spots but not effective beyond that. It's not effective against velvet. I would use cupramine or coppersafe to treat specific parasitic problem such as ich and velvet.

This contradicts what Seachem has told me about Paraguard. In my conversations with them, they tout Paraguard as a "safe aldehyde based formalin replacement". The rep claimed Paraguard is effective against "surface" worms and parasites, such as velvet. But not on deeply embedded parasites such as ich.

 

[sc50964]

This contradicts what Seachem has told me about Paraguard. In my conversations with them, they tout Paraguard as a "safe aldehyde based formalin replacement". The rep claimed Paraguard is effective against "surface" worms and parasites, such as velvet. But not on deeply embedded parasites such as ich.

I failed to specify that the mild cases of ich that I found paraguard to be effective was at their fins, which are more noticeable to me at the onset of any ich infestation.

 

[Humblefish]

This post is to get feed back on seachems paraguard. It's suppose to treat ectoparasites viral bacterial and fungal issues but I would like to focus on parisitic. Has anyone treated ick or velvet successfully with paraguard? If so how long did you treat? Which method bath or treat in qt or DT ? did you use any other products or treatments concurrently with the paraguard? Let's see if we can compile an informal list about PARAGUARD.

Would you like me to add this poll to your thread?

• I have successfully used Seachem Paraguard to treat external parasites such as ich & velvet.
• I tried Seachem Paraguard, but it failed to eradicate the parasites.
• I have no experience using Seachem Paraguard.

Members would be allowed to choose from one of those three choices.

 

[jeff williams]

Would you like me to add this poll to your thread?

• I have successfully used Seachem Paraguard to treat external parasites such as ich & velvet.
• I tried Seachem Paraguard, but it failed to eradicate the parasites.
• I have no experience using Seachem Paraguard.

Members would be allowed to choose from one of those three choices.

Ya that would be good. Also just a comment on the previous posts from my research on copper which has primarily consisted to cupramine, this will only kill ick during the free swimming stage, possibly a little effective during the protomont just before encysting so like Paraguard it to will not affect any ick under the skin

 

[Highgrade]

Paraguard isn't going to cure any parasitic problems. I've seen several people try and it ended badly.... they would change to copper or CP instead.

+ 1 on this. I use it solely for a dip prior to QT for 10min then a 10min dip before going into any display after the QT process is complete. Its more of a preventative measure. Only true evidence I found from using paragaurd is Flukes hate it. Dip a fish with Flukes in Paragaurd and its almost as effective as a FW dip.

 

[Humblefish]

Ya that would be good. Also just a comment on the previous posts from my research on copper which has primarily consisted to cupramine, this will only kill ick during the free swimming stage, possibly a little effective during the protomont just before encysting so like Paraguard it to will not affect any ick under the skin

Yes, but copper can be measured using a test kit to ensure it remains therapeutic. With Paraguard, there's no way of knowing how long it stays effective. So, while it may zap some of the free swimmers ... others survive and attach to a fish once the chemical is no longer potent.

 

[Humblefish]

POLL ADDED AT THE TOP

 

[jeff williams]

Paraguard isn't going to cure any parasitic problems. I've seen several people try and it ended badly.... they would change to copper or CP instead.

This is what I'm getting at, most all the people I've heard of using paraguard say "they switched to copper or cp" what they don't say is weather or not they ran a full treatment protocol recommend by seachem before treating. I have 2 fish in qt right now with ick and I have been treating for 12 days (seachem recommends 28) I started at the very first signs of scratching and no visible ick and my fish got worse by about day 8 they were COVERED in ick know at day 12 there looking 90% better (knock on wood) this being my point is I to started questioning is PG working I almost changed to cupramine that night. And I'm wondering if that is what a lot of people are doing because most don't realize ick and velvet are going to get noticeably worse before it starts to get better

 

[jeff williams]

Yes, but copper can be measured using a test kit to ensure it remains therapeutic. With Paraguard, there's no way of knowing how long it stays effective. So, while it may zap some of the free swimmers ... others survive and attach to a fish once the chemical is no longer potent.

Very good point plus cupramine stays in suspension and has an affective range of .2-.7 and toxic at .8 I've read on seachems web site paraguard remains in the water for 24-48 hrs and recommends dosing daily so one would have to be on a dosing schedule

 

[sky_mac]

Full treatment (28 days) in Hospital Tank against ich, worked as expected. Started immediately when I saw my yellow tang's first white spots. Display tank fishless for 60 days. No experience in Velvet.

 

[salty150]

Only true evidence I found from using paragaurd is Flukes hate it. Dip a fish with Flukes in Paragaurd and its almost as effective as a FW dip.

Wow, seriously?

So using this for flukes would be more mild on the fish than PraziPro... no?

 

[melypr1985]

So using this for flukes would be more mild on the fish than PraziPro... no?

No, it's not a replacement for prazipro. While it may rid the fish of some or even most of the flukes, it's unlikely to kill them all and it only takes one to keep it going on the fish.

 

[melypr1985]

I started at the very first signs of scratching and no visible ick and my fish got worse by about day 8 they were COVERED in ick know at day 12 there looking 90% better (knock on wood)

What's interesting here is that you are seeing the natural life cycle of ick. It lives/feeds on the fish for 3-7 days or so and then drops off to create a cyst or tomont in which is propagates. It will then break free to swim around and infect the fish again.

Life Cycle - Ich is most often introduced into an aquarium by a fish carrying trophonts. However, cross contamination from theronts or a tomont brought in on a coral/invert are other possibilities. Assuming we are dealing with a fish carrying trophonts, this is how the life cycle plays out:

1. A trophont will typically spend 3-7 days feeding on a fish, before dropping off to become a protomont.
2. The protomont crawls around for 2-18 hours, looking for a surface to encyst upon. Once it finds this, it sticks to the surface, and begins the encysting process. The parasite is now called a tomont.
3. It takes about 8-12 hours for the cyst to harden around the tomont. After this, the tomont goes into “reproductive mode” producing numerous daughter tomites. These tomites are then released into the water column as theronts. How long it takes for theronts to be released varies greatly, depending upon which strain of ich you are dealing with. The average time is 2 weeks, with 35 days usually being the maximum; however in at least one study (Colorni and Burgess 1997), it took 72 days for all the theronts to be released from a group of tomonts.
4. The now “free swimming” theronts seek out fish to feed on, thereby becoming trophonts, and the cycle starts all over again. A given strain will die out after 100 generations or so. Given the average life cycle of ich is 2 weeks, this could take almost 4 years (on average).

As you may have noticed, the timing for each stage to “move forward” to the next varies considerably. Therefore, ich is rarely in sync. For example, it is not unusual for a fish to be battling trophonts, while simultaneously theronts are swimming around looking for a host to feed on. This is especially true if your tank is plagued by more than one strain of ich. It’s this “perfect storm” that sometimes allows ich to overwhelm an immune system and the fish dies.

 

[Highgrade]

Wow, seriously?

So using this for flukes would be more mild on the fish than PraziPro... no?

My experience for Flukes is Prazi is the way to go. If you have a fish with flukes prior to prazi treatment or other QT treatments you can do a FW or Paraguard dip to help remove any flukes. To completely irradicate them I'd say that Prazi is proven to work. Paraguard has no recommended long term treatments to guarantee success. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jeff williams]

"So the results are in"
I stuck with paraguard for the full 28 days Seachem recommended and my fish were still flashing and getting spots. However it did greatly reduce the noticeable amount of spots on the fish body and fins. The fish treated were a Mollie a cleaner gobie and a coral beauty, the gobie I only ever seen 1 spot on his body and never seen him scratch the only thing I noticed on him was at time heavy breathing and hanging at the surface. The Mollie I never seen scratch but she was noticeably spotted she received 2 separate fw dips during treatment to help with heavy breathing. The angel was also quite covered with spots and heavy breathing she also received 2 fw dips. Because of the heavy breathing I added and air stone to bring up O2 levels it seemed to work quite well. I also used metroplex and focus soaked in garlic gaurd , because the Mollie definitely had an internal parasite (white stringy poop) I used it approx 3 weeks it did clear up the internal problem, I was also hoping the metroplex would help with the trophonts can say one way or the other if it did.
CONCLUSION paraguard imo is a good prophylactic or receiving tank treatment because it does treat other diseases however if the fish are showing signs of a parisitic infestation it would be better to go straight to the copper or CP. Also a paraguard bath my be more effective for some treatments such as flukes or possibly brooklynella. As far as velvet paraguard might buy you some time and definitely help with secondary infection regardless of whichever ectoparasites your dealing with it does contain an antiseptic it does not contain an antibiotic.
I most likely will continue using paraguard in my qt/receiving tank or as a 1 hr bath prior to going in my qt, to prophylactically treat brooklynella and reduce bacterial or fungal issues, however at the first signs of flashing the cupramine will go in.

 

[Reefkeeper12]

This post is to get feed back on seachems paraguard. It's suppose to treat ectoparasites viral bacterial and fungal issues but I would like to focus on parisitic. Has anyone treated ick or velvet successfully with paraguard? If so how long did you treat? Which method bath or treat in qt or DT ? did you use any other products or treatments concurrently with the paraguard? Let's see if we can compile an informal list about PARAGUARD.

I’m currently using paraguard, I had used it as a dip originally but found some spots and welts on a Powder Blue Tang a few days later so I transferred him over to quarantine and I’ve only been using paraguard for a few days and did a water change and now he’s in clean non medicated water he has no more spots or welts and looks good as new, based on what I’m seeing the paraguard at the very least has made any noticeable effects go away. I will wait a few more weeks to see if any spots return but I do feel paraguard is working for me.

 

[Powderclownanthias]

This contradicts what Seachem has told me about Paraguard. In my conversations with them, they tout Paraguard as a "safe aldehyde based formalin replacement". The rep claimed Paraguard is effective against "surface" worms and parasites, such as velvet. But not on deeply embedded parasites such as ich.

Hi there , recently I discovered very interesting medication from German company called Aquarium munster, I have tried the product Ektomor against ich , I'm pretty sure it helped a lot , I'm not sure what kind of stuff is in the powder product but seems to work good for me after a really bad ich outbreak, schould be nice if Mr.Humble Fish can investigate about the Aquarium Munster products, they have a lot of stuff, tthe owner from this company is the Dr. Bassler.