LFS has captive bred yellow tangs...

[Zack33]

Last time I checked it was my wallet and my budget, it's not people it's businesses over pricing things. You guys need to get off your high horse. This hobby is not good for the reefs that's it PERIOD. I'm not gonna be lectured by anyone on this forum because we are all guilty of taking from the ocean.

LFS have more to lose than we do they are the ones that need to take price into consideration. When you can get CB clowns for cheap there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get CB YT for a reasonable price as well.

I wasn't trying to lecture anyone! It is fairly simply in my mind, by accepting a current price increase, a demand will be generated, which will in turn create a market where CB will become more popular, and eventually the prices will decrease as they become mass market and no longer a novelty. Think of it like a tech thing. When computers first came out they cost (with inflation and such) A LOT OF MONEY, however they are now easy to produce, and cost relatively very little in comparison. Eventually the same thing will happen with CB fish.

Not to mention there's a whole lot more going on with the reefs then shading due to macro algae. Warm temps are also a huge problem.

As a coral reef biologist (yes I have a degree and everything lol), I don't disagree with you that there are other factors at play. However!! You need to understand that one factor effects another. What I'm getting at here is that yes you could pass reef destruction onto other factors, but that isn't the direct issue we were talking about. Removal of wild-fish from the hobby and local fisheries causes reef damage. Everything you do contributes to warmer water temps, but that isn't the direct issue with captive-bred fish compared to wild-caught fish. By making the herbivorous fish point I was merely pointing out the effect they have.

Alright I'm done. Hopefully more captive-breeding takes place and we see a huge demand take off for them, and eventually changes will happen with the market. Ultimately the hobby will eventually have to move to 100% captive, so that will be very exciting!

 

[cmcoker]

They don't have more to lose than we do??? We lose the hobby they lose their jobs seems black and white to me.

Also I understand right now it may be harder to raise CB tangs but I don't imagine it was easy when the clowns first started being CB either... Before my time only speculating.

Listen I'm not saying be cheap and buy the cheapest stuff however I'm tired of the sky high prices because of greed I get it you are trying to make money but these 100% profit margins are garbage.

My LFS marks up 10 dollars off whole sale I just bought a goldflake angel for 255 dollars that's right 255. Unbeatable. Anywhere else that's a 400-500 dollar fish.

Eh, I guess we can find another hobby and they can find a new job, so what's the difference. I wouldn't be happy to find another field of work but it can be done and probably will have to happen before I reach retirement. I would hate to lose the hobby more, but that's just me. I work to get paid and support my family, I have a Hobby solely because I enjoy it so, to me, loss of the hobby would be worse than loss of my career choice... LFS often don't make it, and a vast majority actually make their money in tank service not in livestock, that being said a Ten dollar markup isn't much, probably just covered the pay of the person unpacking it, for that hour.

When talking about livestock at the LFS, there is additional costs involved in maintaining the animals until sale. What they paid to the wholesaler is not an accurate cost of the animal to the business. Paying people to maintain the tanks, livestock losses, electric, water, rent, advertising, insurance all the costs of the business have to be figured in to the sale price on their stock and services.

This seems to me a difference in where we place value. Cost and value are not hand in hand. Just because it's the cheapest doesn't mean you got the best value. I place value on things we can do to make the hobby more sustainable. I see the value of paying more now to support captive bred species, to make it appealing for people to invest in more captive bred species being researched and developed.

The outcome of not doing what we can, by supporting captive bred supplies, is no one willing to invest in captive breeding more difficult species.

I agree with @Lionfish Lair, it is a matter of time before there are bans on the importing of wild caught marine species. We have already seen it with seahorses, and certain species of corals being added to endangered species lists.

Theres an article in natgeo about an effort trying to require importers to test all incoming shipments for cyanide collection, that's gonna add another cost and I am a bit torn about it only because of questions I have about the process and implementation. I would be glad for it to reduce cyanide collection and gladly pay the additional costs. I am worried what affect it may have on the supply chain, how much time it will add to the livestocks transit time, and how they would determine if partial shipments were positive, etc.

I don't know that I consider any of my LFS owners greedy, think they probably would have started a different business. Similar to my field, people get upset about prices all the time but you can not give everything way for nothing and continue to maintain a successful business. I'm not saying lfs owners are all great wonderful people, as there is certainly some Shady owners, but we don't have to rip on them for making a living

Greed is what I see on the Facebook auctions with pics of tiny frags with super saturated photoshopped colors going for thousands of dollars. Not paying more for a newly captive bred species.

 

[deerhunter06]

Eh, I guess we can find another hobby and they can find a new job, so what's the difference. I wouldn't be happy to find another field of work but it can be done and probably will have to happen before I reach retirement. I would hate to lose the hobby more, but that's just me. I work to get paid and support my family, I have a Hobby solely because I enjoy it so, to me, loss of the hobby would be worse than loss of my career choice... LFS often don't make it, and a vast majority actually make their money in tank service not in livestock, that being said a Ten dollar markup isn't much, probably just covered the pay of the person unpacking it, for that hour.

When talking about livestock at the LFS, there is additional costs involved in maintaining the animals until sale. What they paid to the wholesaler is not an accurate cost of the animal to the business. Paying people to maintain the tanks, livestock losses, electric, water, rent, advertising, insurance all the costs of the business have to be figured in to the sale price on their stock and services.

This seems to me a difference in where we place value. Cost and value are not hand in hand. Just because it's the cheapest doesn't mean you got the best value. I place value on things we can do to make the hobby more sustainable. I see the value of paying more now to support captive bred species, to make it appealing for people to invest in more captive bred species being researched and developed.

The outcome of not doing what we can, by supporting captive bred supplies, is no one willing to invest in captive breeding more difficult species.

I agree with @Lionfish Lair, it is a matter of time before there are bans on the importing of wild caught marine species. We have already seen it with seahorses, and certain species of corals being added to endangered species lists.

Theres an article in natgeo about an effort trying to require importers to test all incoming shipments for cyanide collection, that's gonna add another cost and I am a bit torn about it only because of questions I have about the process and implementation. I would be glad for it to reduce cyanide collection and gladly pay the additional costs. I am worried what affect it may have on the supply chain, how much time it will add to the livestocks transit time, and how they would determine if partial shipments were positive, etc.

I don't know that I consider any of my LFS owners greedy, think they probably would have started a different business. Similar to my field, people get upset about prices all the time but you can not give everything way for nothing and continue to maintain a successful business. I'm not saying lfs owners are all great wonderful people, as there is certainly some Shady owners, but we don't have to rip on them for making a living

Greed is what I see on the Facebook auctions with pics of tiny frags with super saturated photoshopped colors going for thousands of dollars. Not paying more for a newly captive bred species.

I can agree with all that. I simply don't want to be taken advantage of because I care. I don't want to come off as cheap and I am willing to pay a little more to support CB. As long as I'm not paying the difference between a Chevy and a Mercedes. [emoji3]

 

[deerhunter06]

Kinda sad the CB is becoming more of a thing now that the hobby is being threatened. There should of been more work towards this a long time ago.

 

[TheEngineer]

Wow, I can't believe this conversation is still going! That's great!

One thing that has always been of interest to me is how people place a value on one "thing" vs another. I like to think about the restaurant business. I travel a ton for work and that affords me the chance to eat at some amazing restaurants. I've eaten a $100 steak and thought it was terrible. I've eaten a $10 steak and thought it was fantastic. What's the difference between the $100 and $10 steaks? Well where the beef came from of course, but also the name on the door of the place serving it. Most restaurants operate at 300% over cost. If they buy something for $1, they charge you $3. Every business does the same thing to one degree or another.

I find it really interesting that some people are fine with let's say paying $5 for a $0.10 Starbucks coffee, but take issue with the owner of their LFS being able to survive on their store's profits. That's not meant for anyone on this thread, just a general statement. That said, I've been to stores which are selling 10 green trash zoas for $65 and it makes me want to scream.

 

[Brian Kim]

Just out of curiosity, I remember seeing one of my LFS selling CB hippo tangs awhile back. Did they have the same problems as these YT?

 

[Snoopeeyy]

I prefer my Purple Tang over these anyways

 

[Zack33]

Just out of curiosity, I remember seeing one of my LFS selling CB hippo tangs awhile back. Did they have the same problems as these YT?

I have actually never heard of a captive-bred blue tang. I'd be interested to know more about them though.....if it was a true case of captive-bred or not though I wonder.

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

Here's some good info on the supposed HLLE in the yellow tangs.

Just out of curiosity, I remember seeing one of my LFS selling CB hippo tangs awhile back. Did they have the same problems as these YT?

Hippo's have not been captive bred in the sense these yellow tangs have, rather larval reared. Pelagic larvae is collected off of a reef and raised in captivity. It's a case of phonetics - some LFS might label them as captive bred when they should be labeling them as captive/tank-raised/reared. FWIW these hippo's do very well and should be opted for over wild caught, IMO.

 

[Brian Kim]

Here's some good info on the supposed HLLE in the yellow tangs.
Hippo's have not been captive bred in the sense these yellow tangs have, rather larval reared. Pelagic larvae is collected off of a reef and raised in captivity. It's a case of phonetics - some LFS might label them as captive bred when they should be labeling them as captive/tank-raised/reared. FWIW these hippo's do very well and should be opted for over wild caught, IMO.

Thanks for the info!

 

[reefwiser]

Kinda sad the CB is becoming more of a thing now that the hobby is being threatened. There should of been more work towards this a long time ago.

They have been working on breeding Yellow tangs for ten years before this years break thru.

Captive breeding is a very difficult task. The proper food size at the proper time. An getting the fish to spawn is a whole issue. Not all fish spawn continually like clown fish.

 

[Live Water]

If your a good reefer your fish will live for years, some for decades, who cares if a yt is 100 or 300, don't buy it and get out of the hobby if your upset about prices, nobody ever said this was a cheap game. I maintain dozens of tanks, most over 200 gallons, lost a flame angel last month, only Fish I've lost in two years. CB is the way of the future. the rate of population explosion of humans will destroy the oceans no matter what anyone tries to do, with captive breeding we have the potential to eventually create a fish hardy enough to survive in much Harsher conditions. It's possible that there might come a day when these fish can only survive in a aquarium. It's all speculation at this point, keep your fingers crossed and your eyes open!

 

[Deinonych]

They have been working on breeding Yellow tangs for ten years before this years break thru.

Captive breeding is a very difficult task. The proper food size at the proper time. An getting the fish to spawn is a whole issue. Not all fish spawn continually like clown fish.

Exactly. Rearing the larvae is even more daunting once you do get the fish to actually spawn - different species have extremely varied feeding requirements at each stage of development. The breakthroughs this year are the results of years and years of trial and error.

 

[UncleSalty]

Here's some good info on the supposed HLLE in the yellow tangs.
Hippo's have not been captive bred in the sense these yellow tangs have, rather larval reared. Pelagic larvae is collected off of a reef and raised in captivity. It's a case of phonetics - some LFS might label them as captive bred when they should be labeling them as captive/tank-raised/reared. FWIW these hippo's do very well and should be opted for over wild caught, IMO.

I have one of these and he is doing fantastic!