LFS return policy rant

[Indytraveler83]

I've got an lfs I've used a lot in the past. They usually have good livestock and are very friendly. I've noticed the "no refunds" policy in their store, and in the past only bought inexpensive livestock in case something happened.

Well months later, I decided to try and get a group of anthias, and there's a Blenny in the same tank I like too. All 5 fish total $160, which is far more than I usually spend. To this point, I've never lost anything he sold me (except for a baby bta that my peppermint shrimp are).

As he bags things up, I do notice a dead manderin in the same system. I asked him about it, and he says it had been mistakenly put in with a cleaner shrimp that stressed him to death.

This sounded plausable, and stupidly I went ahead with the sale. Well as I've detailed in a few other threads one anthias was pale and gasping for air in the bag by the time I got home. Within an hour she was dead. The rest of the anthias died within a day, the Blenny died within 48 hours.

From what I've gotten from my "help" threads, it appears the animals were infected with velvet, which took a strong turn for the worse when they were captured and moved.

I detailed my QT procedures, and my concerns to the LFS, and told him that while I understand the policy, I communicated that the fish looked very poor before I even unbagged them, and that their deaths likely came from disease in his system (I've been very polite about this so far). I've asked him to see if he can do anything for me to right the situation, as I do feel he sold me diseased fish. So far he hasn't said yes or no, only that he'd investigate (which I'm sorta taking as a "no, but I don't want to say no")

Should I just take this very expensive lesson and be done with it? Keep pursuing him? Am I wrong to expect that dispite his policy, an animal already dying in the bag should be on him?

I'm glad I didn't follow my first thought, to introduce them into my display, since all fish from him have been disease free so far. My gut is telling me he should right the situation in some way, or not return to his store.

Also... Huge lesson in performing QT. My display would all be dead if I'd introduced these fish. Going to rethink and enhance my qt process after this experience.

 

[Glott3133]

Sorry to here about your fish. I experienced the exact same thing with a Bellus Angel that I bought from my LFS. As I do understand the policy, i think it's more important for us as consumers to pay especially good attention to what we buy and how we QT or purchases. I think it sucks, but you're the 3rd person on this forum in the last week detailing a similar situation with their LFS.

 

[sharpimage]

Sorry for the loss, but it is your lesson to learn. Need to examine fish before they bag them up. Online order, yes complain. In person that's on you. My opinion anyways

 

[Cell]

Fair to ask, fair for him to say no, fair for you to take future business elsewhere or not.

 

[PatW]

It is a matter of practicality. I do not see how you can possibly legally force him to cough up the $160. I would think that the “no refunds” sign would work against you. Now there is such a thing as an “implied warranty” (or so I understand). But in order for that to work, you would have to have convincing evidence that the fish perished in short order like time stamped photos.

You might ask for something less than a full refund. Sometimes there are things that are valuable to you but of little value to him, like merchandise that is not moving. Yesterday, I picked up some frags and looked at an extra large one. The store had a bunch of them and they were not moving so they sold it to me at a very attractive price.

 

[Indytraveler83]

Sorry to here about your fish. I experienced the exact same thing with a Bellus Angel that I bought from my LFS. As I do understand the policy, i think it's more important for us as consumers to pay especially good attention to what we buy and how we QT or purchases. I think it sucks, but you're the 3rd person on this forum in the last week detailing a similar situation with their LFS.

Sorry to hear about your loss too. I think I got comfortable, thinking his process and supplier was better than normal.

In the past I've always done a short observation only QT (if at all), medicating if something popped up. I'm not sure if anything could have saved these fish, but I will be rehashing my QT procedures. This scared the snot outta me, since I almost dropped them right into the DT, if not for the fish that started showing signs in the bag, I would have.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

All my LFS are ridden with subtherapeutic copper and subclinical velvet. That is, until you get the fish home. Then they explode with disease unless placed immediately in copper with proper QT. Fish store owner knows it, it’s his call whether or not to refund purchase. I would hope for a partial refund at least or store credit.

 

[Dsnakes]

I would definitely see if he can do something for you, either partial return or partial store credit. Especially if it’s a place you’ve been and have given them business.

If they refuse to give anything at all on the situation I, personally, would consider all future purchases are made elsewhere.

 

[Indytraveler83]

It is a matter of practicality. I do not see how you can possibly legally force him to cough up the $160. I would think that the “no refunds” sign would work against you. Now there is such a thing as an “implied warranty” (or so I understand). But in order for that to work, you would have to have convincing evidence that the fish perished in short order like time stamped photos.

You might ask for something less than a full refund. Sometimes there are things that are valuable to you but of little value to him, like merchandise that is not moving. Yesterday, I picked up some frags and looked at an extra large one. The store had a bunch of them and they were not moving so they sold it to me at a very attractive price.

Totally know I've got no legal recourse. I think from a reputation standpoint though, he should try to right the situation in some way. This isn't the way this is supposed to go, no refund policy or not.

 

[Gw2kpro]

I would ask him to meet you halfway on it for future livestock credit.

If he won't work with you on that, then you shouldn't darken his door again.

 

[Glott3133]

Totally know I've got no legal recourse. I think from a reputation standpoint though, he should try to right the situation in some way. This isn't the way this is supposed to go, no refund policy or not.

Especially if you were dealing with the store owner or a manager. They have all the power in the world to help you in this situation. At the very least offer some kind of explanation/hypothesis of what went wrong. I would want to feel comfortable even if they offer a crap explanation, to make me want to purchase from them again.

 

[MichaelReefer]

I think it really depends on how much the LFS likes you or stands behind their stuff.

I had a Coral Beauty that died within a day of purchasing it...I wen't in and explained to them what happened. He said unfortunately he cant refund my money but he will refund some. So he gave me half the cost back. He didn't have to do that at all, one bit. BUT I have shopped there for everything and spent thousands there, so he did it, which I greatly appreciated.

 

[Indytraveler83]

I think the most irritating part is that he's being wishy washy. He either needs to say "no refunds sorry" or act.

I feel like he's trying to say no, without saying no. He's either going to offer me some sort of fix for this, or I won't go back. There's another lfs in the area that stuggles to get what I want in, but stands behind their stuff.

I get that as the buyer I take on a risk, but when the fish start going downhill before even being unbagged, he should accept some sort of liability.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I would consider asking the store owner to replace the fish at cost. That way, he hasn't lost any money and you don't have to pay full price again.

 

[Indytraveler83]

I would consider asking the store owner to replace the fish at cost. That way, he hasn't lost any money and you don't have to pay full price again.

I may consider something similar. After trying hard to save those anthias, I'm reading about how most people have about a 50% quarentine survival rate at best on them, and how many are cyanide collected and have short lifespans. I think I'm out of the anthias game.

 

[Cell]

I mean this is a bit of a catch 22. If what you think happened is true (the fish were already destined to die from velvet), do you really want to source fish from that store in the future? Either the owner knows and is being shady or he doesnt know and he should.

 

[Jeff Jarry reef]

Sorry for your lose. I would at least talk to him and tell him what happened. And go from there.

 

[Indytraveler83]

I mean this is a bit of a catch 22. If what you think happened is true (the fish were already destined to die from velvet), do you really want to source fish from that store in the future? Either the owner knows and is being shady or he doesnt know and he should.

Yeah. Totally see that point. I'm just not sure it's possible to buy anywhere without taking that same disease risk.

I wouldn't buy from that "section" for sure, and would likely use any credit on coral if possible.

 

[tnyr5]

Sorry to hear about your loss too. I think I got comfortable, thinking his process and supplier was better than normal.

This is the lesson to be learned. Most fish stores don't do anything more than acclimate their fish into their sales systems, diseases and all, and they are only as good as the fish they get from their suppliers that week, and most of them use the same small handfull of suppliers.

 

[Bryce M.]

I would trust my LFS owner with my life, they are a good friend of mine, however I still watch the fish for about 2 weeks before I buy it, if someone else takes it welp looks like I won't have it. Generally the fish I'm interested in aren't taken right away, too much or too big for a casual hobbyist.