LFS said 8 fish will die before one lives...

[Deadlocked]

Hello all. I was at my LFS discussing copepods. I brought up mandarin dragonets. Im not interested in buying one, but i know their main source of food is copepods. The guy at the counter said that you'll probably kill 8 mandarins before you get one to live. That really bothered me. Im almost a year with my first tank and ive done everything i can to make sure my fish can survive. A few have died, but it's still extremely upsetting when they do. He just seemed pretty uncaring about the fish dying. These are still living creatures. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[NowGlazeIT]

Thats buuuuullarky, with enough time, care and understanding none should die that easy. I’ve never had one just die out of nowhere and I’ve kept 3 since I started reefing ten years ago! When I get them in I take them to a ten gallon isolation tank where I get them fat and ready for the display tank.

 

[Tamberav]

Hello all. I was at my LFS discussing copepods. I brought up mandarin dragonets. Im not interested in buying one, but i know their main source of food is copepods. The guy at the counter said that you'll probably kill 8 mandarins before you get one to live. That really bothered me. Im almost a year with my first tank and ive done everything i can to make sure my fish can survive. A few have died, but it's still extremely upsetting when they do. He just seemed pretty uncaring about the fish dying. These are still living creatures. What are your thoughts on this?

This hobby does have high mortality rate of fish. Just check out the disease forums.

You can buy captive bred mandarins which fair better in most cases since they will accept prepared most of the time. They still need to be fed often.

The main issue I have seen with the wild ones is sometimes they arrive super skinny at the LFS and can be difficult to save. 8 is pretty drastic though.

 

[ReefRondo]

Sadly mandarins and Copperbands seems to come with this kind of statement. If the fish is healthy to begin with (which I know is tricky to find) and you have carried out all of your research, you have a good chance of success.

 

[GHOSTLY]

Yeah. I don't believe in wild caught fish now hence why I own a biota bred one. Sadly they're beautiful creatures and sensitive

 

[i cant think]

I find this to be the case with any difficult to care for fish. I’m starting to worry about my tilefish starving out because so little is known about these fish. Hence the difficult care level, I find many of these fish are labelled as difficult because of people not having sufficient fauna in their tank(S). I would wait Atleast 1.5 years before getting a mandarin because I find tanks to be properly established at that point, I find 2 years better though however anyone would pick a two year old tank over a 1 year old tank for a mandarin. I think the minimum age people say a tank should be is 1 year old for a mandarin (I had my CBB 4 months after the tank cycled, however 2 years will always be better than 4 months).
I also find many of the fish we own with difficult care level tend to be the most prone to stress (Hence my worry with the tilefish, I have a tang and a swallowtail Angel but they don’t bother him). People say qt is better for the stress prone fish however IME it doesn’t do them much good, I do the float and drop with my fish which is literally float for 30 minutes (20 if the fish was in the bag for a while already - I.E. 1.5 hours) and then just release it straight into the tank, no net or anything just from the bag to the tank. It has worked with every single one of my fish so far, and I have some harder to keep fish and easier to keep fish (Mixed reef of temeraments supposedly however I only have one demon and that’s the Jade wrasse).

 

[Forty-Two]

I find this to be the case with any difficult to care for fish. I’m starting to worry about my tilefish starving out because so little is known about these fish. Hence the difficult care level, I find many of these fish are labelled as difficult because of people not having sufficient fauna in their tank(S). I would wait Atleast 1.5 years before getting a mandarin because I find tanks to be properly established at that point, I find 2 years better though however anyone would pick a two year old tank over a 1 year old tank for a mandarin. I think the minimum age people say a tank should be is 1 year old for a mandarin (I had my CBB 4 months after the tank cycled, however 2 years will always be better than 4 months).
I also find many of the fish we own with difficult care level tend to be the most prone to stress (Hence my worry with the tilefish, I have a tang and a swallowtail Angel but they don’t bother him). People say qt is better for the stress prone fish however IME it doesn’t do them much good, I do the float and drop with my fish which is literally float for 30 minutes (20 if the fish was in the bag for a while already - I.E. 1.5 hours) and then just release it straight into the tank, no net or anything just from the bag to the tank. It has worked with every single one of my fish so far, and I have some harder to keep fish and easier to keep fish (Mixed reef of temeraments supposedly however I only have one demon and that’s the Jade wrasse).

Just a note on the method you've identified (As Im sure you've been checking - just not mentioned it in this post) - that the salinity should be checked first before adding the fish to your tank. In addition, unless you know the LFS really well - its probably best to use a hand (with glove) to move the fish to the tank.

I bought a tang not long ago and let it float for 30-40 mins and was just about to add it but I decided at the last second to check the salinity. It was 1.015 - and I had checked with the LFS previously who assured me 1.025. Most likely it would have died had I not checked.

In that case I started an emergency procedure to slowly add water to the bag to bring the salinity up - and even over a few hours this was too quick and did cause some distress for the fish - but it did survive.

The other thing to note is that its possible your LFS is dosing copper in the tank that they took your fish out of - and you will be adding that straight into your tank.

 

[i cant think]

Just a note on the method you've identified (As Im sure you've been checking - just not mentioned it in this post) - that the salinity should be checked first before adding the fish to your tank. In addition, unless you know the LFS really well - its probably best to use a hand (with glove) to move the fish to the tank.

I bought a tang not long ago and let it float for 30-40 mins and was just about to add it but I decided at the last second to check the salinity. It was 1.015 - and I had checked with the LFS previously who assured me 1.025. Most likely it would have died had I not checked.

In that case I started an emergency procedure to slowly add water to the bag to bring the salinity up - and even over a few hours this was too quick and did cause some distress for the fish - but it did survive.

The other thing to note is that its possible your LFS is dosing copper in the tank that they took your fish out of - and you will be adding that straight into your tank.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that part. The LFS did copper I think last month, I know this LFS very well and worked in it for a year when they were short on staff, I know their salinity stays at 0.30 (I assume this is due to the disease not surviving in a 0.30 salinity environment). I forgot to check my salinity when I did the float and drop method but I know it stays around 0.30 due to the LFS selling their salt water at 0.30. I definitely agree though, if you can float for longer it’s better however too long can be bad - I don’t drip acclimate due to not willing to risk the ammonia spike from oxygen being reduced/released way too quickly.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

New people come into the hobby, kill a bunch of fish and then quit the hobby. It sucks, but its his job to sell them to you, he needs to make a living to feed his family... you can find countless threads on the forum "I killed x number of fish this year, now I want to quit...". its really a shame, but not the LFS guy fault, he's just making his living

 

[fish farmer]

I've had three mandarins in my entire life. The first one was back in the 1990's, it did extremely well in a 38 gallon FOWLR which was fed heavy and had copepods and amphipods crawling all over the bottom. I gave that one back to the LFS after a year when I was breaking down my tank.

The second one was in 2000, it was a very small one, put in a 38 gallon with few tankmates, I was lucky to get it taking mysis shrimp and it was interested in another zooplankton food I had. It did well for a couple of years, but had a heat wave kill the whole tank.

The third one was a captive bred one in my current setup, 29 gallon. It did eat prepared food but it wasn't enough.

I personally think any fish in this hobby from collection to LFS should be cared for better. I see enough skinny fish at the LFS to know they shouldn't be for sale until they are eating regularly.

 

[Jay'sReefBugs]

Proper preparation is the key in most cases. Yes fish do just up and die or are beyond saving to start with but 8 is a drastic number . I bought mine extremely skinny and was able to bring him back to full health unfortunately only on live copepods he won't convert. The biggest issue is these are one of the most colorful fish and people new to the hobby rush and buy one before doing the preperation work. Me personally I always evocative buying tank raised as the success rate is much higher and you have an out option with frozen foods

 

[GardenofZoas20]

I've only tried one and had great success so far (about 6 months). First my tank was over a year old Waterbox 20 cube which I seeded monthly with purchased pods for about 6 months in advance and lots of rock work. This is my observation tank and had already successfully housed a scooter blenny. The scooter was moved to the display tank, pods continued to be added monthly just to be sure there are plenty. I got a tiny Biota male mandrian that ate TDS pellets right away (the small tank with little competition allowed easy target feeding twice per day). It was very active and has grown fast, eventually also eating frozen food that was mixed in with the pellets. It has moved on to a separate display tank and appears gorgeous, thick, and happy. I am very pleased with both my Biota fish purchases (also a YT). But I still wouldn't try it again unless I had the same factors (Biota, reasonably mature tank with added pods, little to no competition, able to target feed).

 

[Cell]

I wouldn't do business with that LFS. They should be teaching how to be successful, not guaranteeing you will fail.

 

[snorklr]

obviously i was not present for your LFS conversation but maybe he wasnt encouraging you to kill fish as "part of the process" but instead trying to convince you NOT to buy a mandarin at this point by saying that you have about a one in eight chance of getting one that will eat prepared food and survive in an immature tank....i also think that your fish mean a lot to you personally but the reality at the wholesale/retail level is between the number of fish that die during shipping, at the store itself, and are killed by clueless hobbyists it would be really hard to remain in the business if the death of a fish affected you