Lighting Diffuser? Thoughts?

[DipSpit]

One of the issues - if not the only issue - with LEDs can be the "hot spot" created from single point lights. The high output from the actual LED lamps and impressive but lacks the balanced spectrum that a T5 or Halide has; this is made up by various colors of LEDs

Companies combat this by sandwiching the LEDs closer together - the thought being that there will be more time for the individual spectrums to blend together the farther in proximity they are to the tank. Usually these are the fixtures that carry the heavy sticker prices.

So where does that leave people like me?

I currently use 4x SB Reef lights and a 250w Radium and am concerned about 2 things:

1.) The blending of the SB LEDs

and

2.) Since I have a floating canopy - I dislike being able to see the fixtures plainly from the space between the top of the tank and the bottom of the canopy.

Does anyone have experience here?

Here are my thoughts:

Option 1: This is a type of diffusing film which is adhered to glass or plastic. I am pretty much committed to a glass base at this point to deal with the heat from the halide.

PROS: Cheap, adheres directly to glass. CONS: Have to buy in sheets.

Option 2: A "cracked ice" panel. this would be placed under the glass - with the glass separating this sheet and the halide.

PROS: Lots of refraction, affordable. CONS: Will probably see fixtures still.

Option 3: This is something called Makrolon Lumen XT. The product lists different light transmission levels and different diffusing options. I would be using this in the same fashion as the "cracked ice"

PROS: Seems the most thorough of all products. CONS: Very pricey

Any more ideas? Experience? Comments?

Thanks in advance - this is a tricky one for me.

 

[DipSpit]

O_O

It seems like the more I read, the more confused I get.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Removing the lenses helps with light blending and then lowering your light fixtures helps with par.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

You can pull the lenses. You'll get a 30% loss. Or use a diffusion.
i used a piece of acrylic lightly but evenly sanded.
Something that will help is a lux or foot candle meter. Turn on the light meter it then add the diffusion and compensate the loss with the dimmer.

 

[DipSpit]

You can pull the lenses. You'll get a 30% loss. Or use a diffusion.
i used a piece of acrylic lightly but evenly sanded.
Something that will help is a lux or foot candle meter. Turn on the light meter it then add the diffusion and compensate the loss with the dimmer.

I originally did want to go with a simple lens removal - but that didn't solve the aesthetic problem of visually seeing the fixtures in the canopy from below.

 

[mcarroll]

I know you've got a specific set of circumstances at work preventing all this, but just to say it...

Ideally this is solved by putting the lights down on top of the tank like most super-flat strip lights (Current's Orbit, Finnex, et al), or even in the tank. These lights are virtually 100% out of view....hang a painting over the tank.

Second best is a complete canopy.

To do it your way (floating canopy) with the goal of completely obscuring the fixtures inside, you'll need a totally frosted diffuser. Like a frosted incandescent lightbulb where you can't make out the filament at all, there's just a bright spot on the bulb. Or like this "globe" LED bulb:

Maybe also called "matte white" or other names.

I originally did want to go with a simple lens removal - but that didn't solve the aesthetic problem of visually seeing the fixtures in the canopy from below.

It makes light spill 100% worse too if you're not also lowering the light to compensate. Turning up the intensity to compensate for the lenses also turns up the spill.

 

[DipSpit]

You can pull the lenses. You'll get a 30% loss. Or use a diffusion.
i used a piece of acrylic lightly but evenly sanded.
Something that will help is a lux or foot candle meter. Turn on the light meter it then add the diffusion and compensate the loss with the dimmer.

I know you've got a specific set of circumstances at work preventing all this, but just to say it...

Ideally this is solved by putting the lights down on top of the tank like most super-flat strip lights (Current's Orbit, Finnex, et al), or even in the tank. These lights are virtually 100% out of view....hang a painting over the tank.

Second best is a complete canopy.

To do it your way (floating canopy) with the goal of completely obscuring the fixtures inside, you'll need a totally frosted diffuser. Like a frosted incandescent lightbulb where you can't make out the filament at all, there's just a bright spot on the bulb. Or like this "globe" LED bulb:

Maybe also called "matte white" or other names.



It makes light spill 100% worse too if you're not also lowering the light to compensate. Turning up the intensity to compensate for the lenses also turns up the spill.

Agreed on the frosted diffuser - but that raises the question: Can I utilize, say, 1/4" frosted glass? What do you think the impact on spectrum would be. I know there would be an impact for sure - but I lack to tools, guts, or wallet to attempt it without some sort of understanding on what it would be.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Agreed on the frosted diffuser - but that raises the question: Can I utilize, say, 1/4" frosted glass? What do you think the impact on spectrum would be. I know there would be an impact for sure - but I lack to tools, guts, or wallet to attempt it without some sort of understanding on what it would be.

It will add a very slight red shift so the thinner the better.
I personally didn't care and have seen no adverse effects. Keeping in Mind with mh many folks used 6 8 and 10k globes.
Real glass will ad a very slight amount of green.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

One of the issues - if not the only issue - with LEDs can be the "hot spot" created from single point lights. The high output from the actual LED lamps and impressive but lacks the balanced spectrum that a T5 or Halide has; this is made up by various colors of LEDs

Companies combat this by sandwiching the LEDs closer together - the thought being that there will be more time for the individual spectrums to blend together the farther in proximity they are to the tank. Usually these are the fixtures that carry the heavy sticker prices.

So where does that leave people like me?

I currently use 4x SB Reef lights and a 250w Radium and am concerned about 2 things:

1.) The blending of the SB LEDs

and

2.) Since I have a floating canopy - I dislike being able to see the fixtures plainly from the space between the top of the tank and the bottom of the canopy.

Does anyone have experience here?

Here are my thoughts:

Option 1: This is a type of diffusing film which is adhered to glass or plastic. I am pretty much committed to a glass base at this point to deal with the heat from the halide.

PROS: Cheap, adheres directly to glass. CONS: Have to buy in sheets.

Option 2: A "cracked ice" panel. this would be placed under the glass - with the glass separating this sheet and the halide.

PROS: Lots of refraction, affordable. CONS: Will probably see fixtures still.

Option 3: This is something called Makrolon Lumen XT. The product lists different light transmission levels and different diffusing options. I would be using this in the same fashion as the "cracked ice"

PROS: Seems the most thorough of all products. CONS: Very pricey

Any more ideas? Experience? Comments?

Thanks in advance - this is a tricky one for me.

Actually Been There and Done That a couple years ago...

The bottom line is any diffuser reduces PAR or Light to the coral...

The key is an approach with wavelength...And a LED Board Maximized for this..

 

[ReefLEDLights]

History...Back in the day a 400 watt 6.5 Iwasaki MH was $60-75... Way yellow but great growth...Tried Blue Glass and looks were better but after a few months the glass cracked due to heat...

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Yes It was a common idea back then...Glad to be 100% quality LEDs now...

 

[kevlow]

One of the issues - if not the only issue - with LEDs can be the "hot spot" created from single point lights. The high output from the actual LED lamps and impressive but lacks the balanced spectrum that a T5 or Halide has; this is made up by various colors of LEDs

Companies combat this by sandwiching the LEDs closer together - the thought being that there will be more time for the individual spectrums to blend together the farther in proximity they are to the tank. Usually these are the fixtures that carry the heavy sticker prices.

So where does that leave people like me?

I currently use 4x SB Reef lights and a 250w Radium and am concerned about 2 things:

1.) The blending of the SB LEDs

and

2.) Since I have a floating canopy - I dislike being able to see the fixtures plainly from the space between the top of the tank and the bottom of the canopy.

Does anyone have experience here?

Here are my thoughts:

Option 1: This is a type of diffusing film which is adhered to glass or plastic. I am pretty much committed to a glass base at this point to deal with the heat from the halide.

PROS: Cheap, adheres directly to glass. CONS: Have to buy in sheets.

Option 2: A "cracked ice" panel. this would be placed under the glass - with the glass separating this sheet and the halide.

PROS: Lots of refraction, affordable. CONS: Will probably see fixtures still.

Option 3: This is something called Makrolon Lumen XT. The product lists different light transmission levels and different diffusing options. I would be using this in the same fashion as the "cracked ice"

PROS: Seems the most thorough of all products. CONS: Very pricey

Any more ideas? Experience? Comments?

Thanks in advance - this is a tricky one for me.

I like your mix of SBs and MH. I have formed my personal preference for LEDs but still like everything about MH, except the heat.
I agree with your issue with hot spots and I also dislike what I refer to as "angled light" creating shading as well as hot spots. This is why I do not care for the puck design. I much prefer the SB design, and I really like the board photo above provided by Reef LEDLights.

The way I have dealt with hot spots is by have sufficient coverage where there are enough emitters evenly shining straight down the coral area. That usually means having far more lights then is normally recommended. I have also had my best experience by having them mounted high, about 17 inches above the water [I have a shallow tank]. This allows blending of the colors and evens out the par distribution. Then it is just a matter of adjusting the power level to get the desired intensity.

I have used a par meter quite a bit with many different set ups. The puck designs gave the most variations and hot spots. I am pretty happy now with my even distribution of light and blending of colors. I also like that shading is only present on the very outside edges of the tank.

edit added: So in reference to your topic of diffusing, I did not need to do this. But achieved it by more emitters with total coverage and even spacing, mounting high above the waterline, adjusting the power to desired intensity.

 

[DipSpit]

Actually Been There and Done That a couple years ago...

The bottom line is any diffuser reduces PAR or Light to the coral...

The key is an approach with wavelength...And a LED Board Maximized for this..

PAR is not a problem at all.

And I find it hard to believe tempered glass would crack under some halide heat.

While I do agree LEDs have gotten infinitely better over the years I think it can still be improved via diffusion film - the Phillips CoralCare light exhibited this in that BRS video I beleive.

I have plenty of over coverage - probably too much - so if for nothing else I would appreciate the aesthetic of hiding the fixtures.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

History...Back in the day a 400 watt 6.5 Iwasaki MH was $60-75... Way yellow but great growth...Tried Blue Glass and looks were better but after a few months the glass cracked due to heat...

PAR is not a problem at all.

And I find it hard to believe tempered glass would crack under some halide heat.

While I do agree LEDs have gotten infinitely better over the years I think it can still be improved via diffusion film - the Phillips CoralCare light exhibited this in that BRS video I beleive.

I have plenty of over coverage - probably too much - so if for nothing else I would appreciate the aesthetic of hiding the fixtures.

It's actually the heating then cooling of the glass as it is usually uneven. Mainly our coral fixtures aren't designed for it.
Back in the day we in film lighting used a dichroic glass to make 3200 into 5600. But the glass like the lenses in our fixtures are specially tempered for the heat and the fixtures are designed to cool the glass and the arc or tungsten globes correctly.

 

[DipSpit]

It's actually the heating then cooling of the glass as it is usually uneven. Mainly our coral fixtures aren't designed for it.
Back in the day we in film lighting used a dichroic glass to make 3200 into 5600. But the glass like the lenses in our fixtures are specially tempered for the heat and the fixtures are designed to cool the glass and the arc or tungsten globes correctly.

Makes sense - the heating and cooling part anyways.

So can it be done? Lol. Open to suggestions here.

 

[imustbenuts]

One of the issues - if not the only issue - with LEDs can be the "hot spot" created from single point lights. The high output from the actual LED lamps and impressive but lacks the balanced spectrum that a T5 or Halide has; this is made up by various colors of LEDs

Companies combat this by sandwiching the LEDs closer together - the thought being that there will be more time for the individual spectrums to blend together the farther in proximity they are to the tank. Usually these are the fixtures that carry the heavy sticker prices.

So where does that leave people like me?

I currently use 4x SB Reef lights and a 250w Radium and am concerned about 2 things:

1.) The blending of the SB LEDs

and

2.) Since I have a floating canopy - I dislike being able to see the fixtures plainly from the space between the top of the tank and the bottom of the canopy.

Does anyone have experience here?

Here are my thoughts:

Option 1: This is a type of diffusing film which is adhered to glass or plastic. I am pretty much committed to a glass base at this point to deal with the heat from the halide.

PROS: Cheap, adheres directly to glass. CONS: Have to buy in sheets.

Option 2: A "cracked ice" panel. this would be placed under the glass - with the glass separating this sheet and the halide.

PROS: Lots of refraction, affordable. CONS: Will probably see fixtures still.

Option 3: This is something called Makrolon Lumen XT. The product lists different light transmission levels and different diffusing options. I would be using this in the same fashion as the "cracked ice"

PROS: Seems the most thorough of all products. CONS: Very pricey

Any more ideas? Experience? Comments?

Thanks in advance - this is a tricky one for me.

This is what I did.

I cut scrap polycarbonate and sprayed it. I like it personally. I don't know how much par was lost though.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Makes sense - the heating and cooling part anyways.

So can it be done? Lol. Open to suggestions here.

I have a canopy.
I have three ai sol's nine inches above the tank. I cut holes in the top and set the leds into them. Inside the canopy I used sanded acrylic screwed to the top to diffuse and keep the fixtures from falling in.

Before diffusing the fixtures I had 40,000 lux at the top of the tank at 60% power.
After the diffusion I increased the power to to 7o% and 40,000 lux.

I'm also quite mad. I table tested the leds and the face reached 100 or so degrees so use a thick acrylic.

I would not diffuse a MH because it's beautiful light. And by nature it's already diffused.
But you could use a diffusion Gel called opal frost or I would Recomend half opal as opal is to thick and you lose intensity /par.

Search Around the site. There's a few threads on the subject.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

This is what I did.

I cut scrap polycarbonate and sprayed it. I like it personally. I don't know how much par was lost though.

On a razor with stock lenses you get about 40,000 lux/600 par at 12 in at full power.
If you ever care to meter it.

 

[imustbenuts]

On a razor with stock lenses you get about 40,000 lux/600 par at 12 in at full power.
If you ever care to meter it.

I tried to use a lux app on my iPhone but gave up.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I tried to use a lux app on my iPhone but gave up.

Yea.
$14 on Amazon. Well worth the frustration free metering.
It's a meter and not a phone or camera.
The one I did find that gave correct readings was a hassle to use. The Lux meter you just turn it on.