Lighting... do you think we OVERDO it?

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

@Dana Riddle is THE MAN for these kinds of questions! He's an expert on all things lighting.

 

[DuckSlayer627]

Corals definitely do not fluoresce when diving. The deeper you go the more colors get washed out. After 50 or so feet most corals look very similar in color. Its not until you take a picture using artificial light (flash or flood) that you can see the actual color of the coral. When in the 15-20ft range it looks a lot different.

Acropora Palmetta in 20-25ft of water with no flash.

In 3 ft of water

Acropora Cervicornis at 50 ft. with no flash.

50ft. with a flash

 

[DuckSlayer627]

Now if we over do it? I guess it depends where the corals are coming from. All I know is in 5ft. of water it is VERY bright and the corals are colorful.

 

[Hexman]

YES YES YES we over do it that’s for sure... I personally only run my whites 2-3 hours a day I keep mostly blue spectrum on my G4 rations and I don’t crank them to high ..

 

[Derek siskey]

Almost all pictures that people see with corals having any type of natural color in the sea is because the camera has a red lens attached to it. Being a certified diver I can tell you that almost everything that we see with the naked eye underwater is mainly going to be blue and grey shadows.

 

[Hermie]

But under a tropical sun, wouldnt you say there is more yellow and red in the sunlight..... than pure white light?

It's my understanding white is the mixture of ALL colors coming at you....from purples to blues to greens to yellows to reds all coming at you

In the age of 6k, 10k led diodes, those are pretty "white". I believe 5000-kelvin is considered "pure white light"

POINT BEING.... almost all LED lighting systems throw a purer white light in 6k to 14kelvins diodes rather than splitting out yellows and reds in the "White Channel"

I contend that if you took those Acros pictured above and put them under the "white channel" heavy on 6k led lighting, they'd bleach out. I would think theyre use to heavy yellows and reds in their lighting requirements....not pure white light offered in many 6k led diodes in practically ALL LED systems......I dont get the use of white light
.

6K diodes are not a pure wavelength, they are a mixture of wavelengths
it sounds like you are mixing terminology to make a point, so it's a bit confusing
"pure white light" needs a more precise definition to have this conversation IMO.

 

[ZoWhat]

6K diodes are not a pure wavelength, they are a mixture of wavelengths
it sounds like you are mixing terminology to make a point, so it's a bit confusing
"pure white light" needs a more precise definition to have this conversation IMO.

It does get confusing.....

Kelvin is a color temperature that is made of differing color wavelengths.

A color wavelength is specific nanometer wavelength

5000, 6000 Kelvin is a bright white light made up of all the nm colors from blue to red along the visible light spectrum.

 

[Sm51498]

I have seen far more corals bleached out and killed under bright lights than killed by too little light, especially these days.

 

[Hermie]

I get it....

Kelvin is a color temperature that is made of differing color wavelengths.

A color wavelength is nanometer specific.

5000, 6000 Kelvin is a bright white light made up of all the nm colors from blue to red along the visible light spectrum.

But what do you mean by "purer white light" in the below:

"almost all LED lighting systems throw a purer white light in 6k to 14kelvins diodes rather than splitting out yellows and reds in the "White Channel" "

 

[Nasir]

Mostly Sticks, monties, chalices and Favias. Jason Fox dives for his own corals and he has a video on his page talking about this subject and why he went to an all blue light setup.

 

[ZoWhat]

But what do you mean by "purer white light" in the below:

"almost all LED lighting systems throw a purer white light in 6k to 14kelvins diodes rather than splitting out yellows and reds in the "White Channel" "

Typical "black box" led diode layout....

All the 7500k spots are pretty bright white

All the 12000k are whitish light with a hint of blue tint

My contention is are we OVERDOing all this whitish light spectrum making the tank "too white" than what you see corals thriving in 20-30ft of water?

Dear Lord, these lights are less than 2ft away from our corals blasting whitish light. It's my contention that we need much more bluish light to replicate what's happening at 20-30ft.

Idk. I'm not a coral diver. I'm not a marine biologist.

I'm just opening a discussion.... if the LED lights (with the main array of diodes) are too heavy on whitish light.

Idk.... I'm trying to learn from what others are saying.


.

 

[Silverfish]

Good stuff reefers! Very educational for sure. All pretty digestible and definitely helpful.
Let’s keep it going!

 

[Jacked Reefer]

The people here arguing we overdo certain colors are correct. The LEDs we have now days give of a very specific wavelength of light. And unless you have every colored led known to man in your fixture you are going to have some peaks in wavelength. But I don't see that as the main issue as pretty much all forms of light have sharp peaks. Yes including Halides (which I use currently). I think the reason bleaching is becoming a bigger problem is the fact that people now days mess with their lights too much. You cant crank a halide to 30k and back down to 5k in the same day so just the unnatural fluctuations in spectrum are what I believe to be the main source of failure with LEDs. Another Idea I have is the spotting effect. Even if you have a diffuser LEDs will still give off point source light in that respective wavelength. and blasting the same coral with 470nm blue in one spot and Infrared in the other probably has some negative effects.

 

[ScottR]

I think people worry too much about light and not enough about flow. If you go diving, everything is getting blasted by waves and currents. I wish I could have crazy flow in my tank.

 

[Jacked Reefer]

I think people worry too much about light and not enough about flow. If you go diving, everything is getting blasted by waves and currents. I wish I could have crazy flow in my tank.

Get a bunch of jebaos! Though I do think people underestimate flow. I don't think that It can (Directly) cause bleaching. Does it help growth and color? For sure! Kill off all your prized low light corals? Probably not.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I read part of this thread earlier and now have the time to respond. Almost all corals' zooxanthellae reach a maximum rate of photosynthesis (the Saturation Point) at ~400 micromole/m2/second and often less. Depends upon the zooxanthella clade/species (a comparison can be made about sun/shade plants in a terrestrial garden.) It is entirely possible to over-illuminate a reef tank. This is sometimes desirable as the coral will develop coloration that reflects light that could be used in photosynthesis (usually blue and red wavelengths that could make the coral appear blue, red, pink. purple, etc.) Some corals can't make these proteins and surfaces exposed to strong light have low zooxanthellae concentrations. Shaded areas will be rich with zoox. I could write a book on this subject. Oh, wait. I have. LOL.

 

[kasso187]

Someone should take a PAR meter to the coral reefs while diving lol.

On a serious note, there's a video interviewing Jason Fox where he talks about how important blues are and he doesn't use any white, red, or green.

 

[ZoWhat]

Found this Kelvin color temperature scale that made a lot of sense to me.

The pure white light I keep talking about is right around 6500k according to this color scale.

Soooooo. Aquarium lighting seems to spec out their color specific diodes (like blue, green, red) as a specific NM.

Once they start spec'ing out "white" type of light on their White Channel, they SWITCH over to the Kelvin rating....bc the white light is a mixture of differing nm wavelengths.

In looking at the Kelvin scale above, popular White Channel diodes fall in the 3,500k (yellowish white) category, then 6,500ks (very bright pure white), then 10,000k/12,000ks (white with a hint of blue), 14,000ks (white with more blue), 20,000k (white with a metallic blue color).

Someone said earlier that they feel as a Diver, the color temp seems to be in the 12,000k color temperature range. That's an interesting observation

 

[Dana Riddle]

I think people worry too much about light and not enough about flow. If you go diving, everything is getting blasted by waves and currents. I wish I could have crazy flow in my tank.

Agreed. Lighting is really pretty easy. Provide 150-200 microMol/m2/sec at the bottom of the tank. As for flow, modern propeller pumps can easily provide enough flow. I have a Danner Mag 12 pump returning flow from the sump and through a flow accelerator, plus a small Tunze 6020. This tank is still young, but corals are growing and have great coloration.

 

[ZoWhat]

I read part of this thread earlier and now have the time to respond. Almost all corals' zooxanthellae reach a maximum rate of photosynthesis (the Saturation Point) at ~400 micromole/m2/second and often less. Depends upon the zooxanthella clade/species (a comparison can be made about sun/shade plants in a terrestrial garden.) It is entirely possible to over-illuminate a reef tank. This is sometimes desirable as the coral will develop coloration that reflects light that could be used in photosynthesis (usually blue and red wavelengths that could make the coral appear blue, red, pink. purple, etc.) Some corals can't make these proteins and surfaces exposed to strong light have low zooxanthellae concentrations. Shaded areas will be rich with zoox. I could write a book on this subject. Oh, wait. I have. LOL.

Yes. Ladies and Gentlemen. The Lord of Light @Dana Riddle has spoken...