Lighting Heigth ?

[FilterFreak]

I have a 55 gal. tank and a 4 ft T-5 strip light with 4 54 watt bulbs - 2 10,000 K 1 blue 1 pinkish colored... I am starting a softy tank and everything i have read says low light to at most medium... Rite now they are hung above the tank about 8 inches and it seems to me, they are to bright... I do get some slight shimmer on the bottom but noting like a Metal Halide produces or some of the high end kessil LED lights...

I have not added any corals yet, i thought it would be a good idea to ask around about the lighting first...

Thanks for any info you may have...

 

[Retro Reefer]

Welcome to the forum! If you have hanging lights I would raise them to the point you can comfortably access the tank for maintenance without bumping into them.. Softies don't need tons of light so you should be fine, if they are unhappy they will let you know.

 

[mcarroll]

Don't guess at your lighting that way! Get a $free [HASHTAG]#lux[/HASHTAG] [HASHTAG]#meter[/HASHTAG] app for your smartphone's camera and measure them NOW! While the app is downloading, order yourself a $15 handheld lux meter (look for a "LX-1010B" or similar) - it's better and is less risky to use around your tank!!

 

[Retro Reefer]

Well with any of the above suggestions you are still guessing.. Smart phone lux apps are basically junk only good for comparing given values that you already know and I would imagine a 15 lux meter wouldn't be much better.. lol. If your setting up a sps tank I would worry about your lighting but for a softy tank not so much.

 

[mcarroll]

Well with any of the above suggestions you are still guessing.. Smart phone lux apps are basically junk only good for comparing given values that you already know and I would imagine a 15 lux meter wouldn't be much better.. lol. If your setting up a sps tank I would worry about your lighting but for a softy tank not so much.

It sounds like you are speculating against actual experience. Maybe I'm not understanding. Why bother speculating when someone has already tried and is using it?

Even without the benefit of someone else's experience (for example you had no Reef2Reef), just think about it:

With your eyeballs, you are guessing. A meter is objective and will give repeatable results.

Better yet try it yourself. Download a free app yourself - the tags are full of threads where people have used them successfully if you still need to convince yourself. I think everyone has eventually got one of the apps to give decent readings. Most people seem to get a good one on the first try.

Last, as I said in my first post, the $15 handheld unit is definitely better - order one now since they can take a few weeks in shipping.

That should be all you would need to set up lights on a reef tank, or move corals to new lights.

As mentioned in other threads, if you really do have a reason to work in PAR (this purpose doesn't require it), then you can acquire/borrow a PAR meter and create an accurate conversion factor for your $15 lux meter.

A set of perfectly usable "generic" conversions goes like this:

Direct Sunlight At Sea Level = 100,000 lux = 2,000 PAR = 1,000 watts per square meter = 93 watts per square foot

 

[Retro Reefer]

No speculation have used lux meters since the 70's in photography and have tried many of the apps and I currently use one for things like tracking the degradation of my PC's as they age.. I set up my first true reef tank in 1986 but kept marine fish and invertebrates well before that so I have been around the block a few times.. The original OP is asking about light height on a simple softy tank, sending him off chasing numbers and potentially wrong numbers for what? Even a accurate lux reading at the water surface tells him nothing about the actual readings in his tank at any given level taking actual depth, water clarity, surface agitation and shading into consideration.. I stand by my original post, if I was sitting up a full house SPS tank I would agree with everything you said but I would recommend a good Milwaukee or hydrofarm underwater lux meter.

 

[mcarroll]

The original OP is asking about light height on a simple softy tank, sending him off chasing numbers and potentially wrong numbers for what?

Interesting take...

I'm actually doing this and have been for a little while now (not saying forever), as are others, and it does work....I'm not just spouting theory. If you catch me in the photography forum with any of this...or saying much of anything that doesn't end with a "?" - then I'd be spouting theory!!

Are you really saying the OP is better off guessing?

You really should read through some of the threads marked with the lux meter tags (or simply search on the forum) and see what you are missing.

Measure PAR underwater with a $3000 meter if you want - Dana Riddle does, so you even have a fine example to follow. (He's written about lux meters in his write-ups a few times too I think.)

But that's expensive, a hassle, and totally unnecessary for this purpose.

Makes no sense unless you have those meters laying around like Dana!! (I wouldn't use a $15 lux meter in that case either! But I would still convert to lux for the forum....cuz who the heck can afford a PAR meter!!!)

What I am interested in is a fellow hobbyist asking questions about lighting like @FilterFreak who might think or get the idea that lux meters are tools they can't or shouldn't use (or even think there are no tools!!) because someone online says that guessing or taking someone else's light settings from across the internet is better for some crazy reason.

If you want something to trade with people online, it's your lux readings from the water surface. Why? Because that reading will be universal for everyone - and that's a meter everyone can afford.

tells him nothing about the actual readings in his tank at any given level taking actual depth, water clarity, surface agitation and shading into consideration..

I challenge you to take all that into consideration.

Then I challenge you to explain your findings to me and @FilterFreak in a way that's useful to us in setting up our lights.

...since our water conditions aren't the same as yours.

On the other hand, if you tell us the peak lux reading you get from your tank - which couldn't be simpler for you to get - both of us have a great shot of duplicating that lighting level (as closely as needed - say to within +/- 2500 lux) using our own meter.

 

[Retro Reefer]

Are you really saying the OP is better off guessing?

So.. Maybe if you slow down, take a deep breath, and actually read and TRY to comprehend what I wrote in my response to the OP's original question it may help You act like my response was "just guess at it you will be fine" I don't see anywhere in my original post where I said that.. I simply suggested he raise his lights to a height that he can comfortably maintain his softy tank and his corals SHOULD be fine.. A simple answer to a simple question. Your suggestion that he download an app or buy a $15 meter for surface lux readings and then chase bogus numbers that will most likely mean nothing in his particular tank is what I would call GUESSING

Measure PAR underwater with a $3000 meter if you want

Again Slow down and read carefully I never suggested that the OP buy a 3k meter I simply said a underwater lux or par meter that would actually give the OP some usable results would be better than GUESSING with your suggested $15 surface meter or phone app.. The hydrofarm is around $100.

I challenge you to take all that into consideration.

I wouldn't try to take any of that into consideration and thank you for highlighting my points of why surface lux readings are basically useless other than maybe a rough starting point when taking depth, water clarity and other factors of a given tank into consideration..

 

[Live Water]

An interesting, war torn thread. Ha thanks for the information people!

 

[FilterFreak]

Thanks for the information ... It will be a "simple softy" tank.. my first reef so i feel its a safe start... I have kept many, many fish species in my time.. I am not totally new to salt/fresh water tanks but i do have a lot to learn about reefing... I like to keep things simple and maintenance easy as possible... I guess we all do, rite?

 

[Retro Reefer]

FilterFreak.. I apologize for turning your question into heated debate.. As in anything in life there are all kinds of varied opinions and technics on just about everything, no matter what height you decide on for your lighting you will most likely end up moving your softies around to find just the right spot for them in your tank and they will tell you if they are happy or not with the lighting.. Most of them are very forgiving and will tolerate some abuse.

 

[FilterFreak]

yea i understand that, i was really looking for a good starting point... heated debate? lol not really imo not like i asked whats best MH, LED or T5 lol, that would have gotten pretty warm im sure... I appreciate the comments i received on the topic.. ~Jim

 

[Darryl]

I have to laugh to myself when young ones have all the answers with new fangled gadgets and not listening to tried and true experience
Don't get me wrong, i like playing with gadgets , but reality is I know what has to be for great growth and when i switched to LED lighting from the old school T5 and halide , it was like jumping out of an airplane for the first time .
Tried the lux reedings stuff ,by the way i am in the marine industry ,and we have the meters but don't need them except for number crunching, thats called EXPERIENCE and it boils down to this period, if you know the livestock that you want to keep thriving ,you know how much and at what height is good by there reaction and I'm not talking about days under grooling light before you realize they are being torched or bleached ,I'm talking within 45 min. if your choral is not responding within that time , check your water quality it probably sucks.if your choral is only slightly responding it is getting to much .
If your only doing soft and etc put the light where it covers the area with out shadowing and can perform maitanace

 

[FilterFreak]

I dont have a established bacteria colony just yet, gonna be a few months or more for that to really set up good without all the ups n downs of a newer tank setup... I know better than to go in blind ... Im sure i will have more questions in the future, i may just PM you to pick your brain a little... Thanks ~Jim

 

[Live Water]

How deep is your tank? Can you post a picture?

 

[FilterFreak]

My 55 gal is 20" tall...

 

[FilterFreak]

Ditto

 

[mcarroll]

Your suggestion that he download an app or buy a $15 meter for surface lux readings and then chase bogus numbers

...is where it just seems like you're being anti.

Why not check in on a few other threads where this has worked?

All you have to do is search R2R for "lux meter" or click one of these tags on the website: [HASHTAG]#lux[/HASHTAG] [HASHTAG]#meter[/HASHTAG]

I never suggested that the OP buy a 3k meter

My point about the $3000 meter (that I suggested) is that you can spend as much as you want AND measure under water. Okay. But a $free or $15 meter will get the job done that we're trying to do.

Seems like every lighting issue I come across now could have been prevented if cheap/free lux meters were prevalent.

maybe a rough starting point when taking depth, water clarity and other factors of a given tank into consideration..

A rough starting point is mostly what we need, and to consider the parameters that are easily considered like surface area, coverage, height, etc....which are all above water.

That's why this works. It's not a miracle and it's not generating scientifically useful data....but we're not here for miracles or to generate data. We're just setting up reef lights and wanna do a good job at it! That's a small order a cheap or free lux meter can fill!

 

[Darryl]

Getting a meter as an app is A good start especially with LEDs because they are more deceiving to the eye especially since the uv is not noticeable and you also have your reference of pleasing color which doesn't always match up to needs
It gives you a starting point that will not be costly to your livestock
Plus it's fun
Still have to use OBSERVATION as the final end all