Lighting that won't need upgrading

[oreo54]

If I ever start thinking of a piece of coral as a pet someone please put me down.

Just because the corals are not growing at record paces does not mean they are suffering. LED's grow corals just fine. Not optimal but just fine all the same.

If you are making this argument about micro organisms suffering from slightly sub optimal lighting then I can't imagine your reaction when you see someone cutting grass or pulling weeds. The torture inflicted on those poor living organisms....

If they really cared they wouldn't want to "irritate" them with a bunch of UV..
Light humor..

And if ultimate growth is desired seems the consensus is Metal Halides and a 6500K Iwasaki..
After that you start to make trade offs..

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

21LEDUSA. Either the Strips or Reefbar PRO.

 

[A. grandis]

If I ever start thinking of a piece of coral as a pet someone please put me down.

Just because the corals are not growing at record paces does not mean they are suffering. LED's grow corals just fine. Not optimal but just fine all the same.

If you are making this argument about micro organisms suffering from slightly sub optimal lighting then I can't imagine your reaction when you see someone cutting grass or pulling weeds. The torture inflicted on those poor living organisms....

The respect for life needs to be in hobby. That is why the opposite side just got the Hawaiian fishes banned. Pure humanism, right? What about Indo corals? We should offer the very best we could to our living organisms, period. People and organizations against our so called hobby are working day and night to shut it down for good! I know people don't think like that and they might think it's kinda crazy. The word PET simply translates CARE FOR with respect and humane love. Very open subject to discussion... anyways..
To have corals growing at "rapid paces" is one thing. To try mimic natural reef conditions is another. They grow fast, they can be fragged and distributed to friends. Isn't that what "WE" preach when "WE" think "WE" can "save the reefs"?

 

[JL15219]

Independent of size, if the tank is equal or less than 24" tall, T5s will give you a lot of extra benefits! Higher than that, for still an optimal growth and colony formation, without any hassle of any kind, halides/T5s will be the optimal IMO. Still, people can use the blue LEDs for the so called "pop", which isn't necessary anyway. That is what it's worth in regards to artificial reef lighting IMO.
People need to put their priorities on the table. Corals, or electricity savings?
I would hope everyone would choose to give the best to the corals.
This old stuff about having corals struggling thinking of saving money isn't right!!
So many people say "I wish I had T5s" ... " I know the corals would be so much better"... " but don't want to spend the money with electricity and bulbs". Better not to have a reef tank then! This organisms should be treated as PETS, not lab rats!
UNLESS you spend thousands of dollars to try mimic T5s covering the whole suface area with LEDs set on relatively low intensity. Still won't be the same cause the spectrum won't be the same as the T5s! No more true UV with LEDs. Search...

Yeah I totally get what you mean....thats why I haven't totally taken them off the table yet

 

[A. grandis]

If they really cared they wouldn't want to "irritate" them with a bunch of UV..
Light humor..

And if ultimate growth is desired seems the consensus is Metal Halides and a 6500K Iwasaki..
After that you start to make trade offs..

The UV produced by halide and T5 reef bulbs is UTILIZED by the corals.
Ultimate growth is normally desired by farmers. I normally refer to optimal growth.
Using any halide and/or T5 bulb you will have that nice mount of UV, not detrimental!
Please don't try to deceive the newbies. That isn't nice!

 

[oreo54]

The respect for life needs to be in hobby. That is why the opposite side just got the Hawaiian fishes banned. Pure humanism, right? What about Indo corals? We should offer the very best we could to our living organisms, period. People and organizations against our so called hobby are working day and night to shut it down for good! I know people don't think like that and they might think it's kinda crazy. The word PET simply means CARE FOR wit respect and humane love. Very open subject to discussion... anyways..
To have corals growing at "rapid paces" is one thing. To try mimic natural reef conditions is another. They grow fast, they can be fragged and distributed to friends. Isn't that what "WE" preach when "WE" think "WE" can "save the reefs"?

Then why do you bombard them w/ UV and disrupt their DNA?
Make them shunt energy building sunscreens instead of life giving food?
You think it makes them "happy"?

The UV produced by reef bulbs is UTILIZED by the corals.
Ultimate growth is normally desired by farmers. I normally refer to optimal growth.
Using any halide and/or T5 bulb you will have that nice mount of UV, not detrimental!
Please don't try to deceive the newbies. That isn't nice!

Utilized for worthless products only meant to stop HARM..but adds color to please you.

Lets make this easy.. what BENEFIT to your health is a suntan?

 

[JL15219]

Flourescent tubes have very little UV unless "speciality" tubes.

Playing With Poison – Ultraviolet Radiation

This article documents the results of an experiment designed to examine the effects of artificially-produced UVR on symbiotic zooxanthellae. We'll also examine inexpensive ways to test your system and, if necessary, corrective measures one can take.

reefs.com

That's a very detailed article I need to read throughly....

 

[JL15219]

Colors of the corals just seem slightly brighter and detailed or more fluorescent. Its not a signigicant difference though.

If I had unlimited money to blow on a chiller I would go back to the T5.

Someone also just pointed out the LED units do look much sleeker if you get them mounted properly. I would have to agree there as well.

For your first light on that small tank my advice would be to go LED. Later on if you get super addicted and want to get a bigger tank and raise the fastest growing healthiest corals in the world then you can upgrade to a T5 or MH.

Yeah thats a good point hmmm....I have noticed corals under LEDs and the seem to glow....

 

[JL15219]

21LEDUSA. Either the Strips or Reefbar PRO.

I will look into that one thanks!

 

[A. grandis]

Then why do you bombard them w/ UV and disrupt their DNA?
Make them shunt energy building sunscreens instead of life giving food?
You think it makes them "happy"?

Utilized for worthless products only meant to stop HARM..but adds color to please you.

Lets make this easy.. what BENEFIT to your health is a suntan?

Instead of "life giving food"? What is that supposed to mean?
Autotrophic feeding is what will rule in a closed system! The rest is addition. I do not condemn other types of feeding. That is another subject all together.
Worthless products? Do you call photosynthesis worthless?

 

[Spare time]

Independent of size, if the tank is equal or less than 24" tall, T5s will give you a lot of extra benefits! Higher than that, for still an optimal growth and colony formation, without any hassle of any kind, halides/T5s will be the optimal IMO. Still, people can use the blue LEDs for the so called "pop", which isn't necessary anyway. That is what it's worth in regards to artificial reef lighting IMO.
People need to put their priorities on the table. Corals, or electricity savings?
I would hope everyone would choose to give the best to the corals.
This old stuff about having corals struggling thinking of saving money isn't right!!
So many people say "I wish I had T5s" ... " I know the corals would be so much better"... " but don't want to spend the money with electricity and bulbs". Better not to have a reef tank then! This organisms should be treated as PETS, not lab rats!
UNLESS you spend thousands of dollars to try mimic T5s covering the whole suface area with LEDs set on relatively low intensity. Still won't be the same cause the spectrum won't be the same as the T5s! No more true UV with LEDs. Search...

Yes, the spectrum is can be achieved by LED's. The same coverage can be achieved. The same growth can be achieved. Light is light, regardless of what it comes from. Now are some LED's worse than t5? Yes, cheap laser beams have horrible spread. Are some LED's better than t5? Potentially, if used correctly. People who say they wish they had t5's so their coral could do better either don't run their LED correctly (height, spread, etc.), fall into logical fallacies and cognitive shortcuts since people are very easy to trick into believing what they want to see, don't understand that when you switch a light source corals are not going to be happy, and so on and so on. It doesn't cost thousands to set up LED's, and you also save by not buying bulbs constantly.

If you can provide me studied evidence that LED causes issues in chlrophyl and photopigment production, and is worse as you describe, then sure. But having used many LED's, sell coral for a job, and dealt with hundreds of tanks running many different lighting setups, having gone to university library indexes to look up what wavelengths and colors are best for different things we keep, I will stick to my evidence

 

[Sippiku]

Can’t recommend orphek or3 enough, good customer service and grows anything 2 bars(blue/day plus)would work

+1 on orphek

 

[Spare time]

Flourescent tubes have very little UV unless "speciality" tubes.

Playing With Poison – Ultraviolet Radiation

This article documents the results of an experiment designed to examine the effects of artificially-produced UVR on symbiotic zooxanthellae. We'll also examine inexpensive ways to test your system and, if necessary, corrective measures one can take.

reefs.com

Yeah true uv invisible UV is something that out tanks don't run on.
True, chlorophyll A peaks beyond ultra violet, and so do the other photopigments common in corals. UV raditiation as we think of is dangerous and animals have evolved over many years to be able to shield themselves from genetic damage.

 

[A. grandis]

That's a very detailed article I need to read throughly....

There are books on reef UV lighting... the bulbs are 100% safe and extremely beneficial to your corals. Best reef tanks in the world ever existed had the lamps I'm talking about here. Better than LEDs without that part of the spectrum and specially the cover.
People think LEDs are great and better than old technologies. They call halides and T5s "dead technology" and "outdated". I feel so sorry for the new people getting in this hobby. They just don't know better. Not their fault!
No sense to keep writing here.

 

[JL15219]

+1 on orphek

Are the Orphek bars adjustable or just static light?

 

[JL15219]

There are books on reef UV lighting... the bulbs are 100% safe and extremely beneficial to your corals. Best reef tanks in the world ever existed had the lamps I'm talking about here. Better than LEDs without that part of the spectrum and specially the cover.
People think LEDs are great and better than old technologies. They call halides and T5s "dead technology" and "outdated". I feel so sorry for the new people getting in this hobby. They just don't know better. Not their fault!
No sense to keep writing here.

I need to set some time aside to watch it lol

 

[oreo54]

People think LEDs are great and better than old technologies. They call halides and T5s "dead technology" and "outdated".

That's a pretty broad brush you are using there.
"People" don't say that.. at least not in the spirit you present it as.

There may come a day that that is true but market factors will decide.

Biggest problem is this market is sooooooooooooooo small that there is no incentive to focus strictly on it in the LED world.
I'm referring to the diodes themselves not fixtures.
Given an efficient long lived Violet or UV pump and the right phosphor pack and you can design ANY spectrum you like.
With less heat, zero mercury, small form factor, more efficient, easily controllable.
No "disco" no arguments.
Of course you would be back to the "one light one color" idea.

We each have our fantasy world eh..

 

[oreo54]

Are the Orphek bars adjustable or just static light?

Funny question, sort of.. Drivers included are non-controllable.
They can be replaced. Exact specs aren't possible but nothing detrimental.
Orphek once "promised" dimmable drivers but have yet to deliver AFAICT.

 

[A. grandis]

Flourescent tubes have very little UV unless "speciality" tubes.

Playing With Poison – Ultraviolet Radiation

This article documents the results of an experiment designed to examine the effects of artificially-produced UVR on symbiotic zooxanthellae. We'll also examine inexpensive ways to test your system and, if necessary, corrective measures one can take.

reefs.com

I do not agree completely that Montipora capitata is the best coral for the experience, practically, and in comparison terms. I've worked with that species and it is a very light sensitive (too much, to say the truth) coral not normally found in a "shallow water lit" home tank and needs to be protected from direct sunlight to thrive. It struggles when lit by sunlight in shallow waters. So... the species was used to manifest the "best reaction against UV" because it's so sensitive and it's easier to see results in that coral, I understand the goal of the article and agree with that mindset, but light loving corals will react differently to UV light with their amazing resistance, naturally. As we see on the reef! I like the article as a whole.
UV offered in the right amount, using the normal aquarium lights we have on the market, is well appreciated by corals and will show better results, similar to what we see in nature! Big time!!!
MMAs are produced by the corals and they are part of deal in nature too! They are also produced in captive corals and regulated accordingly. That's why it's important to well acclimate them to our lights.
UV is well dispersed throughout the system with proper water flow and therefore measurements with stagnant water should be reevaluated.
Each coral will respond differently to light in general and all aspects should be evaluated and taken in consideration, judging individually.

There are so many corals dying under "high PAR" LED fixtures today than we ever heard of dying in systems with much stronger metal halide systems in the history of our hobby!!! Just search this forum and you will find 90% is trouble with LEDs! That shows how much important is quality of light than new technology and saving electricity (which in reality is offering less than optimal in most cases).

Healthy colorful corals in a 447 gallon tank under 3 X 600W HQI.
Can you do this with LEDs? Don't even try!!! You will burn them!
By the way... the sun is much stronger than that where these corals came from!!!!!!

 

[Sarcazian]

Your tank is on the odd size. You will need the 24".
If you can get a 40 breeder, 36"X 18"X 16", you will get the 36" 6 or 8 bulb fixture and that will be amazing!!!!

Wouldn't the 36 x 4 be fine on a 40B? I ask because I plan on building out a 40B next and I still have my original ATI T5 36x4 from 2008 or 2010.