Limewater vs two part
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jason2459
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Alkalinity spike could be more damaging to sps. The pH if to high could be more damaging to many things. If there's a limewater over dose first thing I would test for is pH and if over 8.6 correct it to get it to 8.5 with soda water or heavy aeration if you don't have sodawater. I wouldn't use anything that would spike alk more. Then the next thing I would look at is alkalinity. If over 14 then start doing some water changes to bring it to at least 13. Then just do nothing and not dose anything until the alkalinity goes down on it's own to your target amount.
Been there done that.
I've learned a lot from my mistakes over the years. Plus, Randy and the chemists of the chem forum have been great.
Mark Gray
2500 Club Member
I have also learned so much from reading Randy's articles Thanks RandyAlkalinity spike could be more damaging to sps. The pH if to high could be more damaging to many things. If there's a limewater over dose first thing I would test for is pH and if over 8.6 correct it to get it to 8.5 with soda water or heavy aeration if you don't have sodawater. I wouldn't use anything that would spike alk more. Then the next thing I would look at is alkalinity. If over 14 then start doing some water changes to bring it to at least 13. Then just do nothing and not dose anything until the alkalinity goes down on it's own to your target amount.
Been there done that.
OP
OP
Alkalinity spike could be more damaging to sps. The pH if to high could be more damaging to many things. If there's a limewater over dose first thing I would test for is pH and if over 8.6 correct it to get it to 8.5 with soda water or heavy aeration if you don't have sodawater. I wouldn't use anything that would spike alk more. Then the next thing I would look at is alkalinity. If over 14 then start doing some water changes to bring it to at least 13. Then just do nothing and not dose anything until the alkalinity goes down on it's own to your target amount.
Been there done that.
So a limewater overdose is potentially more threatening than two part? Its like a double whammy ph and alk, while two part is mainly alk but also ph.
DBR_Reef
Active Member
I would generally agree, but also remember that a kalk overdose is much harder to achieve, as the volumes are much greater.
OP
OP
Thats pretty true.
I think wed need spme serious math to figure this one out.
@Randy Holmes-Farley
@JimWelsh
I think the answer is don't think about it. Too many variables to conclude.
The real question is why this question? To determine what method to use? I wouldn't base it on what is more dangerous. I would make the decision based on how well can you implement one vs the other based on your needs.
BOWHUNTER4250
Active Member
i totally agree !! i have a 50 gallon tank hooked up to a dosing pump , i dose 500ml of kalk. every hour , this matches my evaporation rate as well and i have a separate top off tank if needed but is only used to hold R/O water for now .
my PH doesn't drop below 8.0 at night , and in conjunction with my calcium reactor my Alk.and calc. stay stable .
never had a overdose problem or spike in any levels , the only thing was that i weakened the solution a few times by leaving a circulating pump on too long.
That's great!
I know the system works well. I've been tweeting this for 6 months before I decided on this final form of the method.
My pH is also extremely stable along with Cal/ALK. In fact it is my sole source for additives.
You can see here that my pH stays above 8.0. The drop you see here was do to maintaining my sump and moving the probes around.
In the winter months when we have windows open pH is even better.
I still test ALK almost everyday, use a Hanna dKH Checker and only takes about 60 seconds and very accurate.
ALK stays constant at 10.5
Cal: 430
I never have to worry MAG.
Two part creates an imbalance in chloride and sulfate ions, Kalk doesn't do that so there is no real reason to add Mag unless your salt is low. I've never have seen Mag drop lower than 1400 though I still test weekly and have 5 gallon buckets of dry MAG.
Bif24701, I'm curious about this statement, "Two part creates an imbalance in chloride and sulfate ions" Do you have anything I can read to back that up?
For what it's worth, I've dosed Kalk and 2 Part, and 2 Part is just too easy.
Here's my set up:
On a side note, I don't have a lot of evaporation from my tank, so my tank was requiring more Kalk than the rate of evaporation. I don't have that issue with 2 part.
For what it's worth, I've dosed Kalk and 2 Part, and 2 Part is just too easy.
Here's my set up:
jebao dosing pump
2 of these containers http://www.ebay.com/itm/Liquid-stor...tube-inside-/161718835680?hash=item25a73199e0
and 2 part from BRS
Kalk works great, but if you dose Kalk, I suggest you put it on a dosing pump instead of using evaporation, and if you're going to do that, you might as well dose 2 part. Once you get 2 part dialed in to match your uptake, your Alk and Ca will stay rock solid. I used to test my alk daily, then weekly, now bi weekly. It just doesn't change any more. Eventually my corals will grow and require me to up the daily dose, but that's a slow process.2 of these containers http://www.ebay.com/itm/Liquid-stor...tube-inside-/161718835680?hash=item25a73199e0
and 2 part from BRS
On a side note, I don't have a lot of evaporation from my tank, so my tank was requiring more Kalk than the rate of evaporation. I don't have that issue with 2 part.
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Midrats
Valuable Member
I've been dosing limewater with a Litermeter for 20 years. I just dial it in to my evaporation and make adjustments when needed. I live in WI so my evaporation does change with the seasons but it's simple to just add or subtract from the dosage with the touch of a button. It can't, won't, nor ever has overdosed.
I miss spoke should have been Sodium and chloride. They are residual ions left over from the addition of the ALK and Cal parts. This is part of why you must add Mag, but mostly why you either must change water regularly or use a balanced Mag supplements.
"Adding 1 gallon of each of these additives will result in a residue of ions remaining after calcification. These are mostly sodium and chloride, and the amounts of those two added are equal in numbers (i.e., moles), but slightly different in weight-based concentrations such as ppm because they do not weigh the same.
After adding 594 grams of baking soda (1 gallon of Recipe #1), we will have added 163 grams of sodium. In natural seawater, magnesium is present at about 12.0% of the sodium concentration (by weight). In order to match the magnesium additions to the sodium additions to leave them in a natural ratio, we need to add 12% of 163 grams, or 19.5 grams, of magnesium for every gallon of the two-part additive that we add."
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/
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That's exactly correct. The change is small and gradual. As with any and all additives you WILL have to make adjustments over time. Adjusting the amount of Kalk you add based on evaporation rate is no different except that the change is never as great as ALK/Cal consumption can swing. Conclusion is that adding a set amount of Kalk to match your evaporation rate is easy and easy to adjust, very safe, and effective.
Jizu Puentes
Well-Known Member
Here in FL my evaporation varies so I use an Ice cap dosing pump to dose 91ml per hour of kalk out of a 20 gallon reservoir. For top offs I just have an Aqualifter attached to a float switch that's in my sump. For me having a reservoir of Kalkwasser is more simple and cheaper than 2 part. The 20 gallons lasts me about 25 days since I dose down to the 5 gallon mark before refilling. My ph stays at 8.2 day and night where before kalk it was 7.8
Mortie31
Valuable Member
Kalk overdose has always been my biggest fear, hence I designed a few safeties into my system that may help, i didn't want my ATO container and kalkstirrer directly connected as this can lead to huge amounts of kalk being added into tank if something goes wrong with a pump. What I did was to have a second smaller tank just 5L as an intermediate tank, one dosing pump pumps from my ATO into the Int tank small amounts of RO 4 times a day. My main dosing pump then pumps from this Int tank to the Stirrer on my dosing schedule. It dose 6L a day ( which is just under my minimum evaporation and I dose 24/7 so iworked out how much to pump into 2nd tank 4times a day to keep it from overflowing or running dry. This way it limits the amount that can be dosed in a given time that I set and even if it goes wrong and continually doses at 15ml/min 5L max won't do anything nasty to the tank.. for something to really go wrong both of my dosing pumps need to fail in the on position, and now I have the added safety of ph cutout through my Profilux as well, maybe you can take a few ideas to help you. I supplement with balling system as well to maintain Ca, Alk and mg levels.
Controller relay switches are 999x's more likely to fail in off position. The pump can not add any more of there is no power.
Your system works, and seems safe but it is more complicated than I think it needs to be. I really do understand the fear however. If a crash happened today after >365 perfect days where my corals have been growing, coloring, and being happy would devastate me.
I think simpler is better. My pump isn't going to get stuck on. It's on a relay socket on my APEX. Even if it doesn't work for a week my tank won't crash.
I have :
one pump
One container
I mix water/Kalk ~3-4weeks. Just pump it from my RODI holding/salt mixing station.
I advise you guys to make your systems simple. Eliminate possible failure points by not having them in the first place.
One important thing for sure everyone needs to have: Anti Siphon Punp. I can not understate how important that is. Also must prevent the sediment from getting into the display system. This will raise the pH dangerously fast.
I use a very strong magnetic dosing tube holder to place my Kalk intake tube above the sediment. I like I can remove it to clean and inspect it.
If you have a Controller or pH controller you can set a secondary safe guard to prevent problems. Set the controller to alert and shut off pumps if pH raises too high. Turn off the return pump, this can prevent the solution making it to the display of a siphon or stuck pump does happen.
A balanced ALK/Cal supplement is the best way to maintain stony corals in a reef tank because it has the fewest components and potential fault areas. Just consider how many more parts and components there are in a CalRx and two part.
Kalk is the single most underrated way to maintain a reef tank.
Many say "your system will quickly out grow Kalk". This is not true. Most whom are considering different methods are beginners to intermediate reef keepers like me. I have lots of SPS, acros, LPS and have not had any reason to add two part even though I have had 5 gallon buckets of the supplements and equipment for a year. I've been ready to go but Kalk is just so good why change.
Unless you are a very seasoned veteran reef keeper and will fill a tank in weeks or already have lots of corals Kalk will fill your needs for a long time. This is advantageous because it's simplicity allows you to focus on important things like stability.
If you have to ask "Kalk or 2 part?", go with Kalk every time!
One more thing. Do NOT use the Aqualifter pump with Kalk, use a quality dosing pump.
I see no issue with this, you don't require full saturation but mixing it at capacity is easy.
Separating the two is also safe, and simple.
I advise you though never use the Aqualifter pump with Kalk. It is way too inconsistent and can/will siphon.
DMan
Active Member
I'm crazy about kalk. But I have definitely had to change dosing over the last year just due to growth. But lucky I only run a 100g total volume. So my ato is only 5 gal. And I'm no where near saturation point for kalk. I started at about 1tsp per gal. And now I'm up to about 1.5tsp per gal. I've had the a spike here and there till I get the season dialed in. But from summer to winter not much change in evap.
Regardless I think Randys article on kalk is a good place to start if you have questions.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php
Regardless I think Randys article on kalk is a good place to start if you have questions.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php
Stated in the article:
"As expected, the magnesium depletion is significant. While this depletion may be mitigated in a number of ways (including water changes), it shows that aquarists using limewater should consider monitoring magnesium over long periods of time. The previous article also compared magnesium depletion via limewater to magnesium depletion using a variety of different calcium carbonate materials in CaCO3/CO2 reactors."
Basically if you are doing sufficient water changes it can be enough to maintain Magnesium alone unlike 2 part where it is required.
