"Live" rock and live rock

[zdrc]

I'm on the verge of finally filling a used 12 gallon aquapod I bought a few months ago. This will be my first reef tank. I've had many freshwater tanks over the years, with a recent focus on delicate anabantoids. I've been planning for a while, and I decided I was going to run the tank as "dirty" as possible. No mechanical filtration (partially because of how the aquapod AIO back is constructed), a mini fuge in the back, live rock, chaeto from the LFS sump, no quarantine (at least for the first fish, I might quarantine other fish I get) just a simple coral dip, tap water, etc.

The goal is to not stress about hitchhikers, make my mistakes in a low risk environment where they can be cheaply and easily corrected, and to create a diverse and interesting biological environment.

My problem is that it's hard to get real live rock anymore, at least cheaply and in the small quantities I want it in. It seems like the easiest option would be to get "live" rock from the LFS. This is just rock that's been in their tanks for a while. At least one of the LFS bleaches the rock before putting it in the "live" rock bin, which I have mixed feelings about.

How different is this "live" rock compared to actual ocean live rock? Will it actually make a difference which type of rock I get for my specific case?

Should I look into just getting live rubble?

Should I just bite the bullet and buy real live rock?

What are good places to get live rock these days (KP aquatics is one I think)?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I'm on the verge of finally filling a used 12 gallon aquapod I bought a few months ago. This will be my first reef tank. I've had many freshwater tanks over the years, with a recent focus on delicate anabantoids. I've been planning for a while, and I decided I was going to run the tank as "dirty" as possible. No mechanical filtration (partially because of how the aquapod AIO back is constructed), a mini fuge in the back, live rock, chaeto from the LFS sump, no quarantine (at least for the first fish, I might quarantine other fish I get) just a simple coral dip, tap water, etc.

The goal is to not stress about hitchhikers, make my mistakes in a low risk environment where they can be cheaply and easily corrected, and to create a diverse and interesting biological environment.

My problem is that it's hard to get real live rock anymore, at least cheaply and in the small quantities I want it in. It seems like the easiest option would be to get "live" rock from the LFS. This is just rock that's been in their tanks for a while. At least one of the LFS bleaches the rock before putting it in the "live" rock bin, which I have mixed feelings about.

How different is this "live" rock compared to actual ocean live rock? Will it actually make a difference which type of rock I get for my specific case?

Should I look into just getting live rubble?

Should I just bite the bullet and buy real live rock?

What are good places to get live rock these days (KP aquatics is one I think)?

Nothing beats real ocean collected live rock that's been in the ocean for many thousands of years vs. the single digit year soak in what's probably bottled bacteria from your LFS...the stuff from the ocean is teaming with innumerable bacterial strains...if I were you and you can pay for it, I'd definitely bite the bullet

 

[LOVEROCK]

Unique corals sometime get batches of real ocean rock

 

[Reefing102]

If it’s been bleached, it wouldn’t be very good live rock in my opinion as it likely no longer has the bacteria colonies. That said, @uniquecorals had some Australian live rock not too long ago. I’ve ordered live rock from KP and loved it. Several have ordered from Gulf Live Rock @Gulf Live Rock and Tampa Bay Saltwater @LiverockRocks (KP, Gulf and TBS all are aquacultured live rock)

 

[tinyfellows]

I got “live” rock and it basically instant cycled and didn’t have much of anything in terms of hitchhikers good or bad

 

[Timfish]

There is a HUGE, and I mean HUGE difference between sterile rock that's had some bacteria added to it and wild or maricultured live rock from the ocean. Only about 3% of the microbial stuff found on reefs can actually be cultured and stuck in a bottle. As far as aquacultured sponges Tyree is the only source I know of fo rcryptic sponges, only other source is wild or maricultured lvie rock. Here's Aquabiomic's article:

Establishing a Healthy Microbiome in a New Aquarium Using Live Rock

Studying the effects of live rock in a newly established aquarium shows that high-quality live rock promotes the rapid establishment of an effective biological filter and a microbial community similar to those found in mature reef tanks.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Sump Crab]

KP aquatics or gulf rock is good these days, definitely worth the $$!

 

[lubeck]

KP aquatics or gulf rock is good these days, definitely worth the $$!

THIS^

 

[Ultraman]

Terrestrial rock nonetheless.

 

[Spare time]

It doesn't matter imo. You will get all of the bacteria from the skeletons of corals, snail shells, crab shells, etc. If you want live rock, get something like the kp aquatics stuff and not what is just stuck in tanks at an lfs. The latter of those two is likely to be very much pest filled.

 

[bobnicaragua]

Try to find some live rock on Craigslist or from a local fish store if they have any from a tear down.

Tap water is most likely a really bad idea. Unless you have exceptionally pure water, it will be a nightmare of unending algae blooms. Inverts won’t do well if there’s metal contaminants.

 

[zdrc]

I'm going to buy 10 lbs of KP live rock. Seems like it's worth it, and the price isn't too bad.

Try to find some live rock on Craigslist or from a local fish store if they have any from a tear down.

Tap water is most likely a really bad idea. Unless you have exceptionally pure water, it will be a nightmare of unending algae blooms. Inverts won’t do well if there’s metal contaminants.

Yes, I know the risks. I've tested the water with the Salifert Master kit and a TDS pen. All zeros* except 1.6-1.9 dKh and ~50 TDS. I will get some live sand tomorrow and fill the tank. I live in the Denver Metro area and I'll take a sample of water directly to ICP Analysis in Lakewood to get a quick test before the live rock arrives. It'll be good for calibrating my test kit and hydrometer anyway. If there are any problems with trace metals, I'll have time to switch to DI before stocking the tank. The tank is so small that this shouldn't be a huge problem to rely on DI at least for a little while.

*I don't think the calcium test is accurate below 300 ppm so I don't really know about the calcium content in the tap.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm going to buy 10 lbs of KP live rock. Seems like it's worth it, and the price isn't too bad.


Yes, I know the risks. I've tested the water with the Salifert Master kit and a TDS pen. All zeros* except 1.6-1.9 dKh and ~50 TDS. I will get some live sand tomorrow and fill the tank. I live in the Denver Metro area and I'll take a sample of water directly to ICP Analysis in Lakewood to get a quick test before the live rock arrives. It'll be good for calibrating my test kit and hydrometer anyway. If there are any problems with trace metals, I'll have time to switch to DI before stocking the tank. The tank is so small that this shouldn't be a huge problem to rely on DI at least for a little while.

*I don't think the calcium test is accurate below 300 ppm so I don't really know about the calcium content in the tap.

Did you test for chlorine??
I assume you're planning to add Prime or something similar before putting in the tank...?

 

[MaxTremors]

I'm going to buy 10 lbs of KP live rock. Seems like it's worth it, and the price isn't too bad.


Yes, I know the risks. I've tested the water with the Salifert Master kit and a TDS pen. All zeros* except 1.6-1.9 dKh and ~50 TDS. I will get some live sand tomorrow and fill the tank. I live in the Denver Metro area and I'll take a sample of water directly to ICP Analysis in Lakewood to get a quick test before the live rock arrives. It'll be good for calibrating my test kit and hydrometer anyway. If there are any problems with trace metals, I'll have time to switch to DI before stocking the tank. The tank is so small that this shouldn't be a huge problem to rely on DI at least for a little while.

*I don't think the calcium test is accurate below 300 ppm so I don't really know about the calcium content in the tap.

A cheap RODI unit would be well worth the investment. The $60 50gpd aquaticlife one on Amazon is just fine for nano tanks, it will last you at least a year and cartridge replacements are like $30). By the time you pay for an ICP test and a bottle of prime, the RODI unit would likely be cheaper. It’s just one less unknown when you’re troubleshooting problems with your tank (which you’ll inevitably have).

 

[JoJosReef]

You can also get gulf sand from TBS in the same shipment as your rocks. The sand is great. My "live" sand from CaribSea in my Evo gets massive mats of GHA growing on it and occasionally dinos. The sand from TBS, so far at 3 months has only had a few sprigs of unidentified green algae that I pluck out.

Even with the cost of shipping, I think it's worth it. If you can handle a few critters and get rid of the bad ones, you'll be golden.

My office 10g tank, 100% gulf rock and sand:

 

[zdrc]

A cheap RODI unit would be well worth the investment. The $60 50gpd aquaticlife one on Amazon is just fine for nano tanks, it will last you at least a year and cartridge replacements are like $30). By the time you pay for an ICP test and a bottle of prime, the RODI unit would likely be cheaper. It’s just one less unknown when you’re troubleshooting problems with your tank (which you’ll inevitably have).

I'm getting the ICP one way or another (for calibrating test kits). I may get a RO/DI, but I'm not going to do it until it's clear that it's absolutely necessary. I already have a big bottle of prime that I use for the freshwater tanks I have.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I'm getting the ICP one way or another (for calibrating test kits). I may get a RO/DI, but I'm not going to do it until it's clear that it's absolutely necessary. I already have a big bottle of prime that I use for the freshwater tanks I have.

That's like driving your car with all flat tires and saying you won't replace them because you're still moving forward...it kinda is necessary to use RODI water

 

[zdrc]

That's like driving your car with all flat tires and saying you won't replace them because you're still moving forward...it kinda is necessary to use RODI water

Jake from Reefbuilders also lives in Colorado and also uses tap (I think he runs it through a carbon filter first though). It's not necessary to use RODI, it's just usually necessary and always a safe option.

 

[MaxTremors]

Jake from Reefbuilders also lives in Colorado and also uses tap (I think he runs it through a carbon filter first though). It's not necessary to use RODI, it's just usually necessary and always a safe option.

Running water through a carbon block removes the vast majority of the stuff you don’t want (it’s usually the second part of a 4 stage RODI), it’s very different than using straight tap water. Also, unless you’re in the same municipality and your house has identical piping as Jake Adams, his tap water compared to yours is irrelevant, tap water from one town/municipality can be wildly different from the next town over. The point is, RODI units, especially for nanos are cheap enough that it just doesn’t make sense not to use one. If you want to run your tank ‘dirty’, as in with lots of micro fauna and inverts, using tap water, which has the potential to contain heavy metals, isn’t conducive to that goal. It’s your tank, but just doesn’t make sense to handicap yourself from the outset.

 

[zdrc]

Running water through a carbon block removes the vast majority of the stuff you don’t want (it’s usually the second part of a 4 stage RODI), it’s very different than using straight tap water. Also, unless you’re in the same municipality and your house has identical piping as Jake Adams, his tap water compared to yours is irrelevant, tap water from one town/municipality can be wildly different from the next town over. The point is, RODI units, especially for nanos are cheap enough that it just doesn’t make sense not to use one. If you want to run your tank ‘dirty’, as in with lots of micro fauna and inverts, using tap water, which has the potential to contain heavy metals, isn’t conducive to that goal. It’s your tank, but just doesn’t make sense to handicap yourself from the outset.

Honestly, this isn't really the place to discuss this as I already had a post about it, and I'm not really interested into getting into it. The way I see it, if the mixed water tests like healthy saltwater then it is healthy saltwater whether the base water is tap or RODI. I already know that the kH of my tap is <2 dkH and it contains no nitrate, ammonia, or phosphate (assuming I tested correctly, this, of course, will be tested by the ICP), and it probably doesn't have much (or any) Mg or Ca. If the ICP of the mixed tap water is clean and the alk, Ca, and Mg are in a good range then I won't get an RODI unit. If the ICP isn't clean or those key parameters are out of range then I will get an RODI. That's really it.

This is anecdotal, but I've kept freshwater crustaceans perfectly fine in this tap. I don't know if freshwater crustaceans are more or less susceptible to heavy metals than saltwater, but it's at least somewhat of an indication that the tap doesn't contain excessive levels of heavy metals. The ICP should show for sure.