Live rock conundrum

[Futuretotm]

Best LR = High porosity = more bacteria

For the longest time I’ve wanted to go with TBS, however they use Foster Smith stone which according to some is porous on the outside few cm only and the center is a concrete blob.

I have looked at other sources ie KP, Saltybottom, GulfLR, they all use limestone, which is denser than pukani but perhaps more porous than WS 2.1.

Keeping the above two in mind, wouldn’t it make sense to go with the latter?

 

[Futuretotm]

Any one?
#reefsqaud

 

[X-37B]

Maybe a little of each would be best.
I did 50/50 caribsea and store bought live rock.
The live rock came out of my nano, 30lbs, was 2+ years in my nano.
IMO a 50% blend is just about right vs cost.

 

[X-37B]

Just noticed you are in Florida. If I lived their 100% live and a mix would be awesome.

 

[AquaBiomics]

Best LR = High porosity = more bacteria

For the longest time I’ve wanted to go with TBS, however they use Foster Smith stone which according to some is porous on the outside few cm only and the center is a concrete blob.

I have looked at other sources ie KP, Saltybottom, GulfLR, they all use limestone, which is denser than pukani but perhaps more porous than WS 2.1.

Keeping the above two in mind, wouldn’t it make sense to go with the latter?

I absolutely agree with your premise. And its my biggest concern about most of the farmed live rock, which is otherwise awesome.

I've spent quite a bit of time breaking apart materials sold as live rock and examining the internal structure. You really can't see from the outside, but in my experience only materials directly derived from corals show any meaningful porosity in the middle. Everything else is more or less clean, solid limestone in the middle. (Except the fake purple WS2.1 or whatever, which was solid purple concrete in the middle)

So IMO given what's available, I'd go with the lowest density material available (just to minimize costs) that was farmed, and I'd ask for the smallest pieces available (this has greater surface area to volume ratio so a larger fraction of the rock will be within a short distance from the surrounding water). And I'd add as much real dead coral (pukani, etc) as possible for internal surface area. Sort of a best of both worlds approach -- get the diversity from the farmed rock, and old pukani etc. for the actual rock part.

 

[NashobaTek]

I absolutely agree with your premise. And its my biggest concern about most of the farmed live rock, which is otherwise awesome.

I've spent quite a bit of time breaking apart materials sold as live rock and examining the internal structure. You really can't see from the outside, but in my experience only materials directly derived from corals show any meaningful porosity in the middle. Everything else is more or less clean, solid limestone in the middle. (Except the fake purple WS2.1 or whatever, which was solid purple concrete in the middle)

So IMO given what's available, I'd go with the lowest density material available (just to minimize costs) that was farmed, and I'd ask for the smallest pieces available (this has greater surface area to volume ratio so a larger fraction of the rock will be within a short distance from the surrounding water). And I'd add as much real dead coral (pukani, etc) as possible for internal surface area. Sort of a best of both worlds approach -- get the diversity from the farmed rock, and old pukani etc. for the actual rock part.

This is kind of what I did, I have about 10 different coral skeletons and the rest is dry rock off of Amazon. One piece of the coral is the very porous red pipe organ coral, which is where I always release my pods so they get a chance to hide. The micro brittle stars have also seemed to take up home in it, along with the feather duster.

 

[NashobaTek]

I absolutely agree with your premise. And its my biggest concern about most of the farmed live rock, which is otherwise awesome.

I've spent quite a bit of time breaking apart materials sold as live rock and examining the internal structure. You really can't see from the outside, but in my experience only materials directly derived from corals show any meaningful porosity in the middle. Everything else is more or less clean, solid limestone in the middle. (Except the fake purple WS2.1 or whatever, which was solid purple concrete in the middle)

So IMO given what's available, I'd go with the lowest density material available (just to minimize costs) that was farmed, and I'd ask for the smallest pieces available (this has greater surface area to volume ratio so a larger fraction of the rock will be within a short distance from the surrounding water). And I'd add as much real dead coral (pukani, etc) as possible for internal surface area. Sort of a best of both worlds approach -- get the diversity from the farmed rock, and old pukani etc. for the actual rock part.

This is kind of what I did, I have about 10 different coral skeletons and the rest is dry rock off of Amazon. One piece of the coral is the very porous red pipe organ coral, which is where I always release my pods so they get a chance to hide. The micro brittle stars have also seemed to take up home in it, along with the feather duster.

 

[malacoda]

More porous does = better anaerobic bacterial growth for nitrate control. But TBS can still work.

I used TBS -- Walt Smith 2.0 rock -- in my 24g 5 years ago. Love the stuff. All the life on it - even the few 'bad' hitchhikers was amazing to watch. And the tank was incredibly stable and healthy right up until I took it down 2 months ago (because I was moving).

I did have high NO3 for the first year (kept creeping up to 15-20 despite bi-weekly water changes) ... and did indeed suspect it was do too less micro-porosity. But some Seachem De*Nitrate run in a little reactor in my sump took care of it in less then a week ... and kept it at 1-3 ppm for the 4 years that followed.

Brightwell Xport Bio-bricks/plates or something similar would work also.

In my 65g I used Walt Smith rock straight from the waters of Fiji (was trying to do a Pacific biotope). Same exact rock, just a bit more of it. I'm not sure if it was a difference in the way it was mixed/made, or because there was a little more of it (not much though) than I had in my 24g ... but the NO3 held low and stable for me without any need of adding De*Nitrate, etc.

So, if you really want TBS rock, I wouldn't let porosity hold you back. It may work just fine processing NO3. And if it needs a little boost, there are several options you could use along with it.

 

[Futuretotm]

I’m leaning now more towards non TBS, based on the fact that live rocks primary role is to provide surface area.

I’m sure TBS is excellent choice @d2mini used it for a while as well (I may be wrong but his TBS leached phosphates). But perhaps the more porous limestone that’s been in the gulf may outperform plus won’t leach phosphates (perhaps)

 

[d2mini]

I’m leaning now more towards non TBS, based on the fact that live rocks primary role is to provide surface area.

I’m sure TBS is excellent choice @d2mini used it for a while as well (I may be wrong but his TBS leached phosphates). But perhaps the more porous limestone that’s been in the gulf may outperform plus won’t leach phosphates (perhaps)

I have used TBS in multiple tanks. I always get "The Package" which includes rock, sand, critters, and other fun stuff. It's like an instant tank, capable of supporting fish and coral after just a few days. No leaching. It's truly "live rock" since it is fresh and transported in water.