Live Rock in Sump need a light?

[beesnreefs]

I’m about to start a new system. 225g. I’ve built an aquascape for it from Marco dry rock. Will start with that and a 2-3 inch deep bed of CaribSea Ocean Direct sand in the display.

Want to seed the system with some live rock as well. Looking at putting 10-15 lbs of KP Aquatics Premium Live Rock in the sump.

If I do this (put it in the sump), do I need to put a light on the sump?

 

[theMeat]

If you’re looking to grow macro algae for nutrient export yes. If you are not growing algae, no

 

[Gedxin]

While this will be fine,.I'd be wary of an ammonia spike from die off. No light means stuff will turn back to nutes.

 

[beesnreefs]

While this will be fine,.I'd be wary of an ammonia spike from die off. No light means stuff will turn back to nutes.

Turn back to nutes? Help me understand what you mean

 

[Spare time]

Having no light would kill off many of the beneficial things on the rock

 

[Isaac Alves]

I’m still hung up on this term “nutes”.

 

[Gedxin]

Nutes = Nitrates and phosphates. But worse case, if you don't have a high bacteria population to break down those, you'll be stuck with high ammonia. Just test daily, do lots of water changes and you'll be fine.

 

[theMeat]

I’m about to start a new system. 225g. I’ve built an aquascape for it from Marco dry rock. Will start with that and a 2-3 inch deep bed of CaribSea Ocean Direct sand in the display.

Want to seed the system with some live rock as well. Looking at putting 10-15 lbs of KP Aquatics Premium Live Rock in the sump.

If I do this (put it in the sump), do I need to put a light on the sump?

Let’s start over since the advice you’re getting is all over the place and some is simply not true. If you buy Kp aquatics live rock it will have all sorts of things growing on it, some need light to survive. Putting live rock in a new system could bring in some desirable things but can also bring in some things you wish you avoided. This can also happen each time you add a new coral or frag. If you put cured live rock it will/should have some beneficial bacteria but will/should be free of any pests or anything that needs light to survive.
If you’re buying the live rock to add some life to your tank that you want to spread put it in the display. If your adding live rock to add beneficial bacteria to speed your cycle use cured lr instead.

 

[Tamberav]

You will have some die off without light but the bacteria and pods and will still seed the system.

You can buy the KPA stuff that is cured for much less die off and it’s a bit cheaper. It will already be missing most photosynthetic things but still contain bacteria.

 

[beesnreefs]

You will have some die off without light but the bacteria and pods and will still seed the system.

You can buy the KPA stuff that is cured for much less die off and it’s a bit cheaper. It will already be missing most photosynthetic things but still contain bacteria.

Are you referring to the “starter” rock they offer?

If so, I believe that say you should cure it upon arrival too: https://www.kpaquatics.com/product/starter-aquacultured-live-rock-free-shipping/

 

[beesnreefs]

Let’s start over since the advice you’re getting is all over the place and some is simply not true. If you buy Kp aquatics live rock it will have all sorts of things growing on it, some need light to survive. Putting live rock in a new system could bring in some desirable things but can also bring in some things you wish you avoided. This can also happen each time you add a new coral or frag. If you put cured live rock it will/should have some beneficial bacteria but will/should be free of any pests or anything that needs light to survive.
If you’re buying the live rock to add some life to your tank that you want to spread put it in the display. If your adding live rock to add beneficial bacteria to speed your cycle use cured lr instead.

Just to be sure I’m understanding, you are saying that if I put the live rock in the sump it will help my cycle but the beneficial organisms will not spread to the display?

 

[theMeat]

Just to be sure I’m understanding, you are saying that if I put the live rock in the sump it will help my cycle but the beneficial organisms will not spread to the display?

Beneficial bacteria will spread quickly, along with other things like pods, etc. Other things, like polyps will take more time, if at all

 

[beesnreefs]

Beneficial bacteria will spread quickly, along with other things like pods, etc. Other things, like polyps will take more time, if at all

There are two reasons I am thinking about placing the live rock in the sump.

1) I’ve already built the full aqua scape so I don’t have a space to put the live rock in the display that wouldn’t look odd.

2) I can get the premium live rock and sequester it in the sump so any hitchhikers that make it through the shipping and curing process are easier to remove if I want.

But I see what folks are saying about the light. There will be some photo synthetic things on there. If I were to put a small light on the sump, what would you suggest?

 

[theMeat]

There are two reasons I am thinking about placing the live rock in the sump.

1) I’ve already built the full aqua scape so I don’t have a space to put the live rock in the display that wouldn’t look odd.

2) I can get the premium live rock and sequester it in the sump so any hitchhikers that make it through the shipping and curing process are easier to remove if I want.

But I see what folks are saying about the light. There will be some photo synthetic things on there. If I were to put a small light on the sump, what would you suggest?

Kessil makes really small but pricey. Current usa makes reasonably priced stuff and should be sufficient if sump isn’t crazy deep. Have had good luck with beamswork stuff, that’s like current USA knock off stuff you can find on eBay or Amazon.
Post up some pics

 

[Tamberav]

Are you referring to the “starter” rock they offer?

If so, I believe that say you should cure it upon arrival too: https://www.kpaquatics.com/product/starter-aquacultured-live-rock-free-shipping/

Yes maybe. Depends on shipping chosen and die off. Overnight in water to an airport should be minimal.

If the tank is new without fish or corals then it doesn’t really matter.

The cured stuff won’t have large organisms or macro on it, etc. It pretty much looks like grey wet rock.

 

[theMeat]

Some food for thought.. I get wanting tank up and ready asap. But would recommend cycling the tank with lights off to try and avoid ugly stages. Then put live rock in. If you do run a light on sump you can help stabilize ph swings if you run sump light at night when display tank lights are off

 

[beesnreefs]

Some food for thought.. I get wanting tank up and ready asap. But would recommend cycling the tank with lights off to try and avoid ugly stages. Then put live rock in. If you do run a light on sump you can help stabilize ph swings if you run sump light at night when display tank lights are off

I do plan to take things slow. I’m not interested in speed as much as building something that is stable and sustainable long term.

My thinking the live rock goes like this:

- Display will have dry Marco rock aquascape (I’ve already built)
- Display will also have around 200lb if CaribSea Ocean Direct sand
- I’ll be running a fishless cycle and plan to have no lights on display for at least a month
- Live Rock: my thought is, I can add a few pounds of KP Aquatics live rock to the sump from the beginning to help with the biome.

Which led to this thread….if I do put live rock in the sump from day 1, should I run a light on the sump (and sump only, not display) for a few hours each day to support the photosynthetic organisms on the live rock?

 

[theMeat]

Yes, if you put live rock and you don’t want die off run a light. You may have die off anyway because some life may suffer through the cycle.

 

[beesnreefs]

Yes, if you put live rock and you don’t want die off run a light. You may have die off anyway because some life may suffer through the cycle.

Ah, yes, that does make sense. Your suggestion earlier has convinced me.

I think I'll cycle the tank first with the OceanDirect sand and then add some live rock to the sump (with a light) after the cycle has completed.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I do plan to take things slow. I’m not interested in speed as much as building something that is stable and sustainable long term.

My thinking the live rock goes like this:

- Display will have dry Marco rock aquascape (I’ve already built)
- Display will also have around 200lb if CaribSea Ocean Direct sand
- I’ll be running a fishless cycle and plan to have no lights on display for at least a month
- Live Rock: my thought is, I can add a few pounds of KP Aquatics live rock to the sump from the beginning to help with the biome.

Which led to this thread….if I do put live rock in the sump from day 1, should I run a light on the sump (and sump only, not display) for a few hours each day to support the photosynthetic organisms on the live rock?

You have a sound plan. If I might suggest some improvements:
1) I am not familiar with Carib Sea Ocean Direct Sand. If it comes to your directly from the ocean, it is likely a good choice. If it is off the shelf, I world suggest using (at least in part) live sand from KP aquatics or Tampa Bay Saltwater (TBS). This will help the biome and shorten the cycle. It will also provide Coralline to help it get started.
2) Add KP aquatics "Base Rock" to your sump first. It has the bacteria, sponges, and other stuff you wish to add to the biome without a lot of stuff that is going to die off.
3) A light in the sump is a personal choice. I have TBS live sand, Garf Grunge Plus, some dry rock, and KP Aquatics live Base Rock in my sump and don't use a light. It is intended to encourage the growth of cryptic stuff like sponges, tube worms, sea squirts, and copepods. Besides the bacteria provided to the biome, they provide nutrient processing pathways and contribute to the food web.

With a few tweaks he plan you have would allow you to skip an old school "fishless" cycle. You can check out how to start a new tank like @Lasse. Also read the article in the link in my signature. Both of these articles might help you think a little differently about cycling and how to start and stock a reef tank.