Live rock? Is it worth the risk?

[Jesterrace]

I compromised and went with man made Life Rock (basically dry rock with a bacteria coating). That way you get rock with beneficial bacteria but without the pests.

 

[Bill from OZ]

I hope this isn't percieved as being off topic, but has anyone seeded dry rock with bacteria is a bottle? Is this a viable alternative for helping dry rock along?

 

[Jesterrace]

I hope this isn't percieved as being off topic, but has anyone seeded dry rock with bacteria is a bottle? Is this a viable alternative for helping dry rock along?

Generally you do need to add a source of bacteria to dry rock since there is no natural bacteria to jump start the process.

 

[User1]

I hope this isn't percieved as being off topic, but has anyone seeded dry rock with bacteria is a bottle? Is this a viable alternative for helping dry rock along?

More or less a fishless cycle if you will. You dose ammonia to 2.0 ppm and toss in a bottle of something like Dr. Tims one and only or whatever the exact name is to kick start the cycle. Several threads on it if you search a little with some interesting results. I actually tried a bottle of it this go around but don't believe it did much of anything. Based on some earlier tanks I've cycled it took about 23 - 30 days for me regardless if I used a shrimp from the butcher or the ammonia. I think the water quality was a bit cleaner (less yellow or cloudy) dosing ammonia and it didn't smell.

But yes, you can do that and there are a couple different brands who offer the bottle stuff.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

The most important attribute to live rock is the porous structure and being phosphate free - dry rock is good at neither of these for a while, but up to a few years.

If this is true crushed reef-rock and -rumble must the best media for bio-filters and for to be used in calcium reactors!?
My opinion most live rock is not that porous. It may have small holes but this thus not mean it is porous. There is not much water exhange. And good stone is overgrown with coralline algae at one side? The water transfer within and true the stone is very limited which makes it a bio- filter with a very low capacity . I can not see the importance of using live rock as a bio-filter or its ability to replace a simple bio-filter.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Generally you do need to add a source of bacteria to dry rock since there is no natural bacteria to jump start the process.

A clean bucket filled with fresh made aquarium water. Put a few drops of Urean (30N) in it and see what happens.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

To install a basic carrying capacity based on the ability to reduce ammonia, photo-autothrops( fythoplakton), heterotrops, and autothrops ( nitrifiers) are needed. The heterothrops can be delivered in a bottle as a lot of them form endo-spores. But they need organic carbon which is very limited available in a new setup aquarium. Most ammonia reducers need free oxygen and will not survive in a bottle. Nitrifiers do not form endo-spores and will not survive drying, frees-drying or be enclosed in a bottle for some time. The photo -autothrops can be installed using live cultures including its grazers. Otherwise the first photo-autotrops will be diatoms.
Anyway, one may add as much diversity we want , we have to wait for the autothrops to install a sufficient ammonia reduction capacity which takes at least 20 days. Meanwhile all the necessary building materials and food must be provided to maintain the introduced diversity. If not, they will be replaced and outcompeted by others. Also on the expensive live rock!

 

[Bob Ander]

I started out with live rock my first tank. To me, it was much cheaper and I felt like I got more for the price since the rock wasn't soaked with water. I did add one small piece of live rock that I picked up at my LFS just to help start the cycling process and to hopefully bring a few critters in. My tank has been up for about a year now and I still have most of the pests that would come with live rock. I have been battling aptasia and bubble algae for a long time now. If I were to start over I would probably go with live rock. I think the faster cycle and biodiversity that it brings into the tank far outweighs the potential pests it can bring in.

 

[Alaura02]

I apologize for not reading through the entire thread, but live rock is definitely worth it IME. Put it this way if your in this for the LONG HAUL, getting rid of a mantis shrimp or perhaps a red eye crab is just part of the experience. It's kind of fun, (like fishing) plus you get some of the other micro fauna too. (hopefully) If you just want things to "fall in your lap" so to say then I don't really know what to tell you. Nobody want's to work anymore unfortunately...

Agree to the last statement! I was.doing some research on coon pests in saltwater realized it is just about as bad as fresh water plants and such... They can do harm but it is usually easily taken care of with some extra work!

 

[Young@Heart]

I have only been doing this for 2 years - so I am not an expert, but I think that if you want a Reef Tank - You should seed some live rock with your dry cured rock. Say 30% live rock to 70% Dry/Cured Rock. If you do it right, you will get the Coraline Algae in about a month or so. Going with Dry Rock is cheaper. (This hobby is expensive enough). If you want Sand as your substrate - I would suggest the same philosophy. All you need is to seed. The microbes and other life "will setup shop" soone enough - Remember check your Live Rock for undesirables. While checking take a look at your Dry Rock too. I got some from an on-line retailer - one of the rocks had something in it that died - the stench was VERY BAD. I submerged the Rock along with a few others that were next to it and the water turned black. Needless to say those rocks have not made it to my tank yet.

 

[elisa h]

For my next build I’m planning on using live rock from Tampa Bay saltwater as I live fairly close to them so I don’t have to pay the huge shipping cost. I’m not worried about coral pests as I am more of a fish person, corals are just an added bonus. I want the microfauna for the fish to be able to enjoy and feel more at home. I know my flame angel will enjoy the sponges. I am worried about things that hurt fish such as mantis shrimp, bobbit worms, and gorilla crabs. What is the best way to avoid these/trap them/search for them on rocks before adding to tank? I will most likely leave the new tank fallow for as long as I can before transferring my fish to hopefully starve any ich/isopods that may be on the rocks out and also use a tester molly. I was thinking about putting the rocks in a spare tank and watch for a while but I don’t want to risk the more delicate life dying while it’s not in the display with proper conditions/lighting. I was also thinking about buying mostly caribsea life rock and then adding around 10-15 pounds of tbs rock to seed to reduce risk for pests.

 

[JDP]

Ok my turn...totally go with the plastic reef and fishes! But don’t add water because you will still have stupid algae;Lurking Better yet buy a really nice HD TV and put a video on it of someone else’s tank...ULM BABE

IMO it doesn’t matter what you do. Your going to get it handed to you ether way. It’s like this, you want it in the growing or hit in the nose? In 5 years, 3 tanks, if you are still in the hobby, you will be a marine biologist like everyone else. There is no ease button, but after the five years, your going to have a crooked nose and walk funny as you gaze upon your amazing reef!

That said, my next build, as previous ones will be with ocean LR. I do appreciate what has been said previously about the timing of events, also emphasized in BRS’s ULM series. I think with my previous builds, to much effort was put in to aquascape in the beginning and having the notion of moving the rock around was voodoo;Mask. In the future, I think I will pull some thought from ULM. Build the bio filtration first down below, have a bear bottom, killer LR in the DT with very low light. Anything I want... on the LR will live in low light, fish to feed the new biodiversity and eat the undesirables. BB will allow me to better capture pests. I can move the rock from left to right and back again at will....until all is clear as can be and then aquascape with the rock I want to keep. Add sand little at a time if I want?

Here is another take. I am a ornamental horticulturist. I can grow tomatoes, that’s right TOMATOES, ether by hydroponics or a quality soil media. I will always choose to grow my vegetables in the richest organic composted soil I can find and or make! This biodiversity is EXTREMELY difficult to replicated through hydro. You ever wonder way that beautiful tomato from the grocery tastes like water;Vomit? Just because it looks good doesn’t make it nutritious.

As said previously, as a novice, your may need the biodiversity (cool visuals) to pull you through the educational process. With dry rock it’s more like starting your first garden hydroponically, the book you read... is not going to be enough! Sorry

 

[Alaura02]

Ok my turn...totally go with the plastic reef and fishes! But don’t add water because you will still have stupid algae;Lurking Better yet buy a really nice HD TV and put a video on it of someone else’s tank...ULM BABE

IMO it doesn’t matter what you do. Your going to get it handed to you ether way. It’s like this, you want it in the growing or hit in the nose? In 5 years, 3 tanks, if you are still in the hobby, you will be a marine biologist like everyone else. There is no ease button, but after the five years, your going to have a crooked nose and walk funny as you gaze upon your amazing reef!

That said, my next build, as previous ones will be with ocean LR. I do appreciate what has been said previously about the timing of events, also emphasized in BRS’s ULM series. I think with my previous builds, to much effort was put in to aquascape in the beginning and having the notion of moving the rock around was voodoo;Mask. In the future, I think I will pull some thought from ULM. Build the bio filtration first down below, have a bear bottom, killer LR in the DT with very low light. Anything I want... on the LR will live in low light, fish to feed the new biodiversity and eat the undesirables. BB will allow me to better capture pests. I can move the rock from left to right and back again at will....until all is clear as can be and then aquascape with the rock I want to keep. Add sand little at a time if I want?

Here is another take. I am a ornamental horticulturist. I can grow tomatoes, that’s right TOMATOES, ether by hydroponics or a quality soil media. I will always choose to grow my vegetables in the richest organic composted soil I can find and or make! This biodiversity is EXTREMELY difficult to replicated through hydro. You ever wonder way that beautiful tomato from the grocery tastes like water;Vomit? Just because it looks good doesn’t make it nutritious.

As said previously, as a novice, your may need the biodiversity (cool visuals) to pull you through the educational process. With dry rock it’s more like starting your first garden hydroponically, the book you read... is not going to be enough! Sorry

Your wording and way of explaining at the end made so much sense to me! I am a urban homesteader so I totally understand everything you said and actually helped me think it through better than just thinking if diversity!

 

[JDP]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...welcome!

PS: No such thing as luck. Way to unpredictable for this hobby!

 

[JDP]

Fantastic! I’m glad.

Do well!

 

[KJAG]

Live Rock or something from a well established tank is essential. If you don't you run the risk as I did of dino infection. You need a good balance so that the bad stuff stays in check. You can't do that with dead rock. Yes you will get some stuff like apatsia or bubble algae but guess what...it will be in there eventually anyway.

You can’t do that with dead rock?? Please elaborate!

 

[samnaz]

You’ve probably got enough options on the matter but here’s mine anyway...

Live rock for me.

You’re almost as likely to introduce a pest on a coral or frag plug. People blame the rock for their algae or aiptasia issue and are quick to blame the rock. For me bubble algae and aiptasia came on frags, but never made it into my tank

Examine all live rock and corals with a magnifying glass and you’re good.

The life that comes on live rock is 100% worth it.

 

[lzrlvr]

Hi real reef solutions live rock seems to be a good alternative to live rock harvested from the ocean.i have 10lbs in my 15 gal reef tank.the system is a bit over one month old and is doing well no algae no hitchhikers.

 

[KenO]

So my LR from KP Aquatics went in the new tank on Tuesday. Today Sunday the ammonia level is now almost zero. I did a number of large WC's during the week. I know there is a small bobbit worm in the tank. Built a worm trap today. Will see if I catch it. Wanted to see if I could catch any worms before I try to catch any crabs. If needed I can keep the tank empty of any fish and corals for awhile. Any suggestions for keeping the bacteria and pods alive without any fish in the system?

I can see a number of macro algaes are still alive, and I have my lights on but set to a low level.

 

[NY_Caveman]

So my LR from KP Aquatics went in the new tank on Tuesday. Today Sunday the ammonia level is now almost zero. I did a number of large WC's during the week. I know there is a small bobbit worm in the tank. Built a worm trap today. Will see if I catch it. Wanted to see if I could catch any worms before I try to catch any crabs. If needed I can keep the tank empty of any fish and corals for awhile. Any suggestions for keeping the bacteria and pods alive without any fish in the system?

I can see a number of macro algaes are still alive, and I have my lights on but set to a low level.

I dose Phytoplanton for copepods in my newly cycled rock.