Liveaquaria changes 14 day policy

[Mattrg02]

@cracker
They still offer 14 day live guarantee. Just changed the procedure by adding extra step of sending in a pic of dead.

I came home to a Midas Blenny skeleton two nights ago. What would I be taking a picture of? Unless you watch the fish die, or are nearby, you aren’t going to find anything to photograph.

 

[Mattrg02]

i spent an hour on the phone with Renee, and she was fantastic because after coming home to find another dead Reef Chromis (that's now 6/8), I wanted to know if I was doing something wrong, or if the issue lies with the overall health of the Live Aquaria specimens.

Long story short, after talking to her we both believe that there's an issue with the Live Aquaria fish that are being sent out, especially since I haven't had a single death with fish purchased elsewhere, only the Live Aquaria fish.

When I suggested something was up with their fisb, they ceased all communication with me.

 

[DougBouma]

Many times they do this for tax purposes as well. Each death is a write off I'm sure.

 

[wesman42]

I think they need a good consultant to go up in their main facility and just Quality Control the heck out of it.

 

[Mattrg02]

I think they need a good consultant to go up in their main facility and just Quality Control the heck out of it.

They need to start testing for cyanide. I read something about a test that can be done. Looking up affects of cyanide caught fish, I’m 99% certain that many of their wild caught fish are cyanide caught.

 

[wesman42]

They need to start testing for cyanide. I read something about a test that can be done. Looking up affects of cyanide caught fish, I’m 99% certain that many of their wild caught fish are cyanide caught.

that's no bueno...but I suppose it is efficient. I'm just surprised it's not illegal around the world in more places.

Heck I wouldn't even know how to catch a fish with cyanide. Now, dynamite I would [emoji854]

 

[pdiehm]

When I suggested something was up with their fisb, they ceased all communication with me.

Yep. Everytime I ask to speak with one of their experts, I get told that I'm obviously doing something wrong, but no one can definitively tell me what I'm doing wrong...I constantly get told, someone will reach out to me, and shockingly no one has contacted me.

 

[Mattrg02]

Yep. Everytime I ask to speak with one of their experts, I get told that I'm obviously doing something wrong, but no one can definitively tell me what I'm doing wrong...I constantly get told, someone will reach out to me, and shockingly no one has contacted me.

Yeah, they always leave it with needing to do more “research”.

I guess it’s hit or miss with them since so many come to their defense.

ORA fish seem to be the most robust.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Yep. Everytime I ask to speak with one of their experts, I get told that I'm obviously doing something wrong, but no one can definitively tell me what I'm doing wrong...I constantly get told, someone will reach out to me, and shockingly no one has contacted me.

Have you reached out to the R2R community to have some experts review your QT setup and procedures?

I personally love Live Aquaria and have had amazing turnout with my QT. I lost 1 fish in QT out of 16.

Happy to help if I can, although an expert I am not!

 

[alton]

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/201...s-that-debunk-cyanide-test-for-aquarium-fish/

They need to start testing for cyanide. I read something about a test that can be done. Looking up affects of cyanide caught fish, I’m 99% certain that many of their wild caught fish are cyanide caught.

Maybe the reason so many take up for LA / DD is most of us have not had the issues with fish from LA/DD? I will agree I will not buy a fish from Xmas Islands, but the good part of LA/DD many times they list where they come from and you can choose whether to buy from that region. For me Africa, Red Sea, and Maldives are some of the best places to buy fish from.

 

[pdiehm]

Have you reached out to the R2R community to have some experts review your QT setup and procedures?

I personally love Live Aquaria and have had amazing turnout with my QT. I lost 1 fish in QT out of 16.

Happy to help if I can, although an expert I am not!

I'm happy to share my QT procedure. Its the same procedure that I use for fish I have bought from Mini Reef, and never lost a fish yet from there...at least during QT. I had 2 fish carpet surf, and that's on me for not having a screen.

When I get the fish (we'll use LA since this is the discussion) from LA, I float inside my QT for 30-45 minutes, maybe long depending on my work call schedule. After the specimens have been temperature acclimated, I pour the contents into a 5g bucket, and immediately dose with Prime to combat the sure to follow ammonia spike. I test the salinity, and from LA it's usually 1.016, and I run my QT at 1.025. I start drip acclimating, and every 15 minutes, I take 2c water out, and put in 1c of tank water. After 45 minutes, I test the salinity, and this keeps going until I get to 1.024 or 1.025.

Once I reach salinity, I use a colander and scoop up the fish, and place them in the QT tank, with lights out. Lights out for 24 hours. At this time, I also pour in a bottle of BioSpira to help. In addition, I have bioballs that are seeded from the display, so I should have plenty of bacteria. After 24 hours, I turn the lights on, and give a little food. If they eat, I'll make my first dose of chelated copper (Copper Power or CopperSafe). The dose is 25% of therapeutic. Every day, I'll add in 25% until I hit therapeutic and then my clock starts. No other medication is in the tank at this time, and honestly the fish have no issues with this. I observe no change in behavior while the chelated copper dosing occurs. They fish are happy, swimming, and eating.

Per Live Aquaria's instructions, I change 2.5 gallons of water every other day, and dose the proper amount of chelated copper to the new water. I test my copper readings with the Hanna High Range Copper checker twice a week to make sure, everything is good.

Now, with Live Aquaria Fish, I'll always have 2 casualties within the first 3 days. it never fails. Things are good for the next 14-17 days, and about day 20-21, with no changes to the procedure, if I have a group of fish, they will start falling by the wayside. By the end of the 30 day treatment, no live aquaria fish is alive for a 14 day medicine free observation period.

Fish I have that have gone through this, 4 clowns, 1 midas blenny, 1 bi-color blenny, 1 yellow tang, 1 tomini tang, 1 hippo tang (the bi-color and 2 clowns are in the biocube). No issues whatsoever. Something about this procedure doesn't work with Live Aquaria fish.

I know the fish I get from Mini Reef, their holding tanks are treated with copper, they tell you about it.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I'm happy to share my QT procedure. Its the same procedure that I use for fish I have bought from Mini Reef, and never lost a fish yet from there...at least during QT. I had 2 fish carpet surf, and that's on me for not having a screen.

When I get the fish (we'll use LA since this is the discussion) from LA, I float inside my QT for 30-45 minutes, maybe long depending on my work call schedule. After the specimens have been temperature acclimated, I pour the contents into a 5g bucket, and immediately dose with Prime to combat the sure to follow ammonia spike. I test the salinity, and from LA it's usually 1.016, and I run my QT at 1.025. I start drip acclimating, and every 15 minutes, I take 2c water out, and put in 1c of tank water. After 45 minutes, I test the salinity, and this keeps going until I get to 1.024 or 1.025.

Once I reach salinity, I use a colander and scoop up the fish, and place them in the QT tank, with lights out. Lights out for 24 hours. At this time, I also pour in a bottle of BioSpira to help. In addition, I have bioballs that are seeded from the display, so I should have plenty of bacteria. After 24 hours, I turn the lights on, and give a little food. If they eat, I'll make my first dose of chelated copper (Copper Power or CopperSafe). The dose is 25% of therapeutic. Every day, I'll add in 25% until I hit therapeutic and then my clock starts. No other medication is in the tank at this time, and honestly the fish have no issues with this. I observe no change in behavior while the chelated copper dosing occurs. They fish are happy, swimming, and eating.

Per Live Aquaria's instructions, I change 2.5 gallons of water every other day, and dose the proper amount of chelated copper to the new water. I test my copper readings with the Hanna High Range Copper checker twice a week to make sure, everything is good.

Now, with Live Aquaria Fish, I'll always have 2 casualties within the first 3 days. it never fails. Things are good for the next 14-17 days, and about day 20-21, with no changes to the procedure, if I have a group of fish, they will start falling by the wayside. By the end of the 30 day treatment, no live aquaria fish is alive for a 14 day medicine free observation period.

Fish I have that have gone through this, 4 clowns, 1 midas blenny, 1 bi-color blenny, 1 yellow tang, 1 tomini tang, 1 hippo tang (the bi-color and 2 clowns are in the biocube). No issues whatsoever. Something about this procedure doesn't work with Live Aquaria fish.

I know the fish I get from Mini Reef, their holding tanks are treated with copper, they tell you about it.

It sounds like a solid QT procedure. I can only comment on what you have done differently from me, so please take it with a grain of salt . My procedure is certainly not gospel!

Here are the differences I saw:

• I actually set my QT to 1.018 salinity prior to receiving my fish and slowly raise to 1.026 over the course of a week.
  • This enables me to get them out of the bag immediately after it is exposed to air which makes the ammonia toxic (due to the ph increase). I see you use prime for this which I'm sure has the same effect.
• During the time I am raising salinity, I...
  • do not treat with anything unless I see a need to (signs of velvet, bacterial infection, ich, etc).
  • use this time to ensure the fish are eating as copper can act as an appetite suppressant. Live white worms are amazing to entice and fatten up newcomers.
• Next, once salinity is at 1.025-26, I ramp up copper in a similar style you do. I break the daily 25% increase into two doses a day, but the effect is the same.

The biggest outcome of the differences mentioned above is I have spread out the stress on the fish longer, therefore making it less significant of an impact. Allowing longer time to get to salinity may be the biggest factor.

Hope this helps.

#reefsquad for the experts and any additional comments

 

[ZachR32]

Just curious what kind of fish from LA have died?

I'm happy to share my QT procedure. Its the same procedure that I use for fish I have bought from Mini Reef, and never lost a fish yet from there...at least during QT. I had 2 fish carpet surf, and that's on me for not having a screen.

When I get the fish (we'll use LA since this is the discussion) from LA, I float inside my QT for 30-45 minutes, maybe long depending on my work call schedule. After the specimens have been temperature acclimated, I pour the contents into a 5g bucket, and immediately dose with Prime to combat the sure to follow ammonia spike. I test the salinity, and from LA it's usually 1.016, and I run my QT at 1.025. I start drip acclimating, and every 15 minutes, I take 2c water out, and put in 1c of tank water. After 45 minutes, I test the salinity, and this keeps going until I get to 1.024 or 1.025.

Once I reach salinity, I use a colander and scoop up the fish, and place them in the QT tank, with lights out. Lights out for 24 hours. At this time, I also pour in a bottle of BioSpira to help. In addition, I have bioballs that are seeded from the display, so I should have plenty of bacteria. After 24 hours, I turn the lights on, and give a little food. If they eat, I'll make my first dose of chelated copper (Copper Power or CopperSafe). The dose is 25% of therapeutic. Every day, I'll add in 25% until I hit therapeutic and then my clock starts. No other medication is in the tank at this time, and honestly the fish have no issues with this. I observe no change in behavior while the chelated copper dosing occurs. They fish are happy, swimming, and eating.

Per Live Aquaria's instructions, I change 2.5 gallons of water every other day, and dose the proper amount of chelated copper to the new water. I test my copper readings with the Hanna High Range Copper checker twice a week to make sure, everything is good.

Now, with Live Aquaria Fish, I'll always have 2 casualties within the first 3 days. it never fails. Things are good for the next 14-17 days, and about day 20-21, with no changes to the procedure, if I have a group of fish, they will start falling by the wayside. By the end of the 30 day treatment, no live aquaria fish is alive for a 14 day medicine free observation period.

Fish I have that have gone through this, 4 clowns, 1 midas blenny, 1 bi-color blenny, 1 yellow tang, 1 tomini tang, 1 hippo tang (the bi-color and 2 clowns are in the biocube). No issues whatsoever. Something about this procedure doesn't work with Live Aquaria fish.

I know the fish I get from Mini Reef, their holding tanks are treated with copper, they tell you about it.

 

[pdiehm]

Just curious what kind of fish from LA have died?

4 flasher wrasse (did not treat with copper), 6 blue gudgeon gobies, 8 barrier reef chromis, a bi-color blenny, and a midas blenny (divers den).

 

[pdiehm]

It sounds like a solid QT procedure. I can only comment on what you have done differently from me, so please take it with a grain of salt . My procedure is certainly not gospel!

Here are the differences I saw:

• I actually set my QT to 1.018 salinity prior to receiving my fish and slowly raise to 1.026 over the course of a week.
  • This enables me to get them out of the bag immediately after it is exposed to air which makes the ammonia toxic (due to the ph increase). I see you use prime for this which I'm sure has the same effect.
• During the time I am raising salinity, I...
  • do not treat with anything unless I see a need to (signs of velvet, bacterial infection, ich, etc).
  • use this time to ensure the fish are eating as copper can act as an appetite suppressant. Live white worms are amazing to entice and fatten up newcomers.
• Next, once salinity is at 1.025-26, I ramp up copper in a similar style you do. I break the daily 25% increase into two doses a day, but the effect is the same.

The biggest outcome of the differences mentioned above is I have spread out the stress on the fish longer, therefore making it less significant of an impact. Allowing longer time to get to salinity may be the biggest factor.

Hope this helps.

#reefsquad for the experts and any additional comments

yes, I'm planning on dropping the initial QT salinity to 1.016. my 2.5g changes at 1.026 every other day will allow me to raise the salinity that way over the course of a week or so. I have dried Mysis Shrimp, which seems to get the fish going, then I introduce flakes and pellets, before putting in my LRS Reef Frenzy, which I have yet to find a fish that won't eat.

 

[ScooterV]

I pour the contents into a 5g bucket, and immediately dose with Prime to combat the sure to follow ammonia spike.

IF the shipping water has copper in it that Prime will result in poisoning. I'm not sure if LA ships with any copper in the water, but it's a possible point of issues. Having QT ready to match still sounds better to me and I find it easier anyway.

 

[ihavecrabs]

IF the shipping water has copper in it that Prime will result in poisoning. I'm not sure if LA ships with any copper in the water, but it's a possible point of issues. Having QT ready to match still sounds better to me and I find it easier anyway.

Great point.

I have found they have always shipped to me in fresh saltwater; however, I would test each time before adding prime.

 

[pdiehm]

IF the shipping water has copper in it that Prime will result in poisoning. I'm not sure if LA ships with any copper in the water, but it's a possible point of issues. Having QT ready to match still sounds better to me and I find it easier anyway.

I have not found any copper in their water, but I also have heard conflicting answers from them about that.

If they had copper in the water, would it take 30 days for a fish to die from that? That's really the part that's giving me pause...why is it most of the fish die between days 21-30?

 

[Burrito]

i have purchased 14 fish from divers den over the past 6 months and have only lost 2 both within 24 hours. one had an obvious parasitic infection, and the other 1 of 3 anthias died after looking amazing and eating, unexplained. the LA people were awesome one the customer service each time. i was not aware they had a policy that didn't require picture, that's nuts and i can see why they changed it.

I'll continue to buy from DD and look forward to my 6pm emails from them

 

[Victoria M]

@pdiehm I just wanted to share that I avoid using prime in any shipping bag due to chance it contains copper. you may already know this - Copper becomes toxic with Prime. I have heard from expert hobbyists on other threads that it seems many fish wholesalers are struggling with diseases in their warehouses. check out the subforum on fish disease. you may find it very interesting.

looks like a few of us were typing at the same time...lol