Long Term Success Using Aquacultured Live Rock

[Fish Fan]

Hi guys! I have a few live rock questions, but I want to kind of explain where I'm coming from first, just to avoid confusion. I am not new to reef tanks, I just haven't had one in years now, and I'm getting back in. I am planning my primary build around a 40 gallon tank, I hope it will be a nice SPS tank, I'm taking my time with the build, and really trying to do things "right" (at least "right" for me personally). To that end, I plan on using 100% dead, dry, bleached, and acid bathed dry base rock for this tank. I'm totally sold on this idea as I'm trying to really be careful about pests, and no one is going to talk me out of that, lol!

Although I want to focus my attention on my 40 gallon SPS tank, I am already planning on a second tank that will be more for fish and easy going soft corals. I realized I'm limiting myself fish-wise with a 40 gallon, bare-bottom tank (though I felt that 40 gallons was as large as I could afford for an SPS tank), and I already have all the equipment I would need for a larger, simpler tank (likely either a 65g or a 125g). I also have 2 IM Fusion 10's, and I want to do one of those as a small saltwater tank too, so likely I will have three reef tanks in the end: 10g, 40g, and a 65g,*maybe* a 125g.

This leaves me some room to experiment with different setups. I am really intrigued by some of the aquacultured rock available, I routinely read great things about rock from Gulf Live Rock, Tampa Bay Saltwater, KP Aquatics and others. and I'm strongly considering using aquacultured rock on one of my "second" tanks, just for the experience.

My question is definitely not, "Should I use live rock or dry base rock, etc. etc.....", so please let's not turn this into that kind of a debate; it's been done to death ;-)

My question is: for those that have used aquacultured rock (GLR, TBS, etc.), what is the long-term success of the "critters" that come with the rock? Again, I read great reviews about how much life (good and bad, I get that) that comes in on these rocks, but I'm curious how many of those organisms can be maintained long-term in the aquarium. What does this rock look like in 12 or 24 months? Do you see a lot of the hitchhikers remaining, or do things slowly die off, leaving more or less "average" rock in a year or so? If anyone has any pictures of mature tanks that were started with aquacultured rock, that would be very, very helpful.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help guys!

-Fish Fan

 

[samnaz]

I started my 20 gallon with live rock from Gulf Live Rock and couldn't be happier. It arrived full of life. A few things didn't make it long term - a couple of large 3-4" bivalves, a bit of macro algae (one species I'm not sure of), and a few little sponges.

Fast forward ~3 years, all other life that came on the rock is thriving - feather dusters (multiple species and colors), many different kinds of sponges, a coral (siderastrea radians), worms, more worms, some non invasive glass anemones, and by far my all time favorite tank inhabitant... the "hidden cup coral" (phyllangia americana), which has gone from one head on a rock to multiple colonies on two of the rocks.

Most of the rock is covered in coralline. No filamentous invasive algae or other unwanted pests to speak of, at any point.

Can't imagine why anyone would prefer any other rock over Gulf Live Rock. What else can provide such biodiversity? Not to mention the fun and excitement discovering all the life.

 

[samnaz]

I'll dig up some photos for ya if you'd like...

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Hi guys! I have a few live rock questions, but I want to kind of explain where I'm coming from first, just to avoid confusion. I am not new to reef tanks, I just haven't had one in years now, and I'm getting back in. I am planning my primary build around a 40 gallon tank, I hope it will be a nice SPS tank, I'm taking my time with the build, and really trying to do things "right" (at least "right" for me personally). To that end, I plan on using 100% dead, dry, bleached, and acid bathed dry base rock for this tank. I'm totally sold on this idea as I'm trying to really be careful about pests, and no one is going to talk me out of that, lol!

Although I want to focus my attention on my 40 gallon SPS tank, I am already planning on a second tank that will be more for fish and easy going soft corals. I realized I'm limiting myself fish-wise with a 40 gallon, bare-bottom tank (though I felt that 40 gallons was as large as I could afford for an SPS tank), and I already have all the equipment I would need for a larger, simpler tank (likely either a 65g or a 125g). I also have 2 IM Fusion 10's, and I want to do one of those as a small saltwater tank too, so likely I will have three reef tanks in the end: 10g, 40g, and a 65g,*maybe* a 125g.

This leaves me some room to experiment with different setups. I am really intrigued by some of the aquacultured rock available, I routinely read great things about rock from Gulf Live Rock, Tampa Bay Saltwater, KP Aquatics and others. and I'm strongly considering using aquacultured rock on one of my "second" tanks, just for the experience.

My question is definitely not, "Should I use live rock or dry base rock, etc. etc.....", so please let's not turn this into that kind of a debate; it's been done to death ;-)

My question is: for those that have used aquacultured rock (GLR, TBS, etc.), what is the long-term success of the "critters" that come with the rock? Again, I read great reviews about how much life (good and bad, I get that) that comes in on these rocks, but I'm curious how many of those organisms can be maintained long-term in the aquarium. What does this rock look like in 12 or 24 months? Do you see a lot of the hitchhikers remaining, or do things slowly die off, leaving more or less "average" rock in a year or so? If anyone has any pictures of mature tanks that were started with aquacultured rock, that would be very, very helpful.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help guys!

-Fish Fan

I used all TBS rock purchased in May of 2017. I still have an assortment of tunicates, barnacles, feather dusters, and bivalves, although certainly not near as many as I had originally. The red, blue, and yellow sponges hung in there for about a a year but they all eventually deteriorated. I do still have some chicken liver and other "blob" type sponges in dark areas. The macro algae did not last very long, but that was expected with chaeto and lowering of nutrients. I did not have many hitchiker corals, but several colonies of hidden cup corals still thrive to this day. I have three distinct colors of coralline algae.

For higher level inverts, I had my share of gorilla and stone crabs, but they weren't bad to catch. I had three pistol shrimp. Caught one and gave it away; the other two I kept and they have been no trouble at all. My rock hatched at least twelve urchins which I gave away. I had a porcelain crab hitchhiker and apparently more. . .I now have at least a half dozen of these interesting filter-feeding creatures and I believe they are breeding.

I have what seems to be bi-monthly hatchings of swarms of mysis shrimp, pods galore, hermits, snails, worms, and all sorts of other critters all from day one. And almost a year and a half later, I recently just discovered I have a type of filter feeding sea cucumber that hitchhiked in.

In summary, while I don't have quite the spectacular life-saturated rock I started with, I by no means have anything near what I would describe as "average" rock. I have been extremely happy with my experience. If I can get you some pictures I will.

 

[Fish Fan]

I started my 20 gallon with live rock from Gulf Live Rock and couldn't be happier. It arrived full of life. A few things didn't make it long term - a couple of large 3-4" bivalves, a bit of macro algae (one species I'm not sure of), and a few little sponges.

Fast forward ~3 years, all other life that came on the rock is thriving - feather dusters (multiple species and colors), many different kinds of sponges, a coral (siderastrea radians), worms, more worms, some non invasive glass anemones, and by far my all time favorite tank inhabitant... the "hidden cup coral" (phyllangia americana), which has gone from one head on a rock to multiple colonies on two of the rocks.

Most of the rock is covered in coralline. No filamentous invasive algae or other unwanted pests to speak of, at any point.

Can't imagine why anyone would prefer any other rock over Gulf Live Rock. What else can provide such biodiversity? Not to mention the fun and excitement discovering all the life.

Hi! Thank you so much for the reply! That's great news, just what I was hoping to hear. In fact, if I do this I will certainly be using Gulf Live Rock because I've already reached out to Dan to ask some questions, and he's been very responsive. I've heard good things about many of these places, but I will likely try Dan at Gulf Live rock. Great o hear about your tank, do you feel that you did anything in particular to ensure your success, or do you feel like the hitchhikers were for the most part fairly hardy?

Thank you again for your help!

-FF

 

[Fish Fan]

I'll dig up some photos for ya if you'd like...

Yes please If it's not too much trouble.

-FF

 

[Fish Fan]

I used all TBS rock purchased in May of 2017. I still have an assortment of tunicates, barnacles, feather dusters, and bivalves, although certainly not near as many as I had originally. The red, blue, and yellow sponges hung in there for about a a year but they all eventually deteriorated. I do still have some chicken liver and other "blob" type sponges in dark areas. The macro algae did not last very long, but that was expected with chaeto and lowering of nutrients. I did not have many hitchiker corals, but several colonies of hidden cup corals still thrive to this day. I have three distinct colors of coralline algae.

For higher level inverts, I had my share of gorilla and stone crabs, but they weren't bad to catch. I had three pistol shrimp. Caught one and gave it away; the other two I kept and they have been no trouble at all. My rock hatched at least twelve urchins which I gave away. I had a porcelain crab hitchhiker and apparently more. . .I now have at least a half dozen of these interesting filter-feeding creatures and I believe they are breeding.

I have what seems to be bi-monthly hatchings of swarms of mysis shrimp, pods galore, hermits, snails, worms, and all sorts of other critters all from day one. And almost a year and a half later, I recently just discovered I have a type of filter feeding sea cucumber that hitchhiked in.

In summary, while I don't have quite the spectacular life-saturated rock I started with, I by no means have anything near what I would describe as "average" rock. I have been extremely happy with my experience. If I can get you some pictures I will.

Hi! Thank you for your reply! Yes, pics please! I'm very excited to hear of your experience. Strange, the sponges in particular I had always thought weer very sensitive to being pulled out of the water, and did not do well in transit. Clearly, some varieties must persists. Very cool! Thank you again for your reply!

Edit: I'll also ask you, did you do anything to keep your hitchhikers going, or did you just kind of let things happen?

Thanks again!

-FF

 

[Fish Fan]

Did any of you guys do the live sand too? I was thinking that might not be worth it, but if there's decent life in the sand......

Thanks guys, really appreciate the feedback!

-Fish Fan

 

[rushbattle]

Hi! Thank you for your reply! Yes, pics please! I'm very excited to hear of your experience. Strange, the sponges in particular I had always thought weer very sensitive to being pulled out of the water, and did not do well in transit. Clearly, some varieties must persists. Very cool! Thank you again for your reply!

Edit: I'll also ask you, did you do anything to keep your hitchhikers going, or did you just kind of let things happen?

Thanks again!

-FF

Yes, if you want sponges to survive you need to go with TBS. Gulfliverock ships with damp newspaper, not in water.

It's up to you if you want to try to maintain the more difficult life. I personally just let it die off slowly so my tank stays somewhat stable.

 

[samnaz]

Hi! Thank you so much for the reply! That's great news, just what I was hoping to hear. In fact, if I do this I will certainly be using Gulf Live Rock because I've already reached out to Dan to ask some questions, and he's been very responsive. I've heard good things about many of these places, but I will likely try Dan at Gulf Live rock. Great o hear about your tank, do you feel that you did anything in particular to ensure your success, or do you feel like the hitchhikers were for the most part fairly hardy?

Thank you again for your help!

-FF

I did absolutely nothing to ensure their survival, as it was my very first reef tank and I'm ashamed to admit I didn't exactly know what I was doing at the time. In the first few days, I would describe the tank water as... disgusting to say the least, very dirty, perhaps even rancid... I even left the two decaying bivalves in the tank for at least a few days before removing them! Yet much of the life managed to survive.

I imagine if I had removed the decaying organisms and stayed on top of water changing, some of the less hardy species would have made the transfer as well.

 

[rushbattle]

Did any of you guys do the live sand too? I was thinking that might not be worth it, but if there's decent life in the sand......

Thanks guys, really appreciate the feedback!

-Fish Fan

I am a recent convert to barebottom after 25 years of sand. My compromise is sand in multiple containers in the sump that I can easily take out and rinse once a year. It helps with stability, I think. I plan on just rotating the containers so the tank is stable.

 

[rushbattle]

I did absolutely nothing to ensure their survival, as it was my very first reef tank and I'm ashamed to admit I didn't exactly know what I was doing at the time. In the first few days, I would describe the tank water as... disgusting to say the least, very dirty, perhaps even rancid... I even left the two decaying bivalves in the tank for at least a few days before removing them! Yet much of the life managed to survive.

I imagine if I had removed the decaying organisms and stayed on top of water changing, some of the less hardy species would have made the transfer as well.

The organisms are pretty hardy, they live close to Tampa!!! I bet you got most of the life that could make it, through the cycle.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Hi! Thank you for your reply! Yes, pics please! I'm very excited to hear of your experience. Strange, the sponges in particular I had always thought weer very sensitive to being pulled out of the water, and did not do well in transit. Clearly, some varieties must persists. Very cool! Thank you again for your reply!

Edit: I'll also ask you, did you do anything to keep your hitchhikers going, or did you just kind of let things happen?

Thanks again!

-FF

I used Sponge Power for the first year and I think that did help out to some degree, especially with the barnacles and tunicates. I think the red tree sponges and yellow ball sponges just won't make it long term in most tanks. You are instructed not to expose them to air, but it really isn't what the problem is. They require a dirty tank and I was going for SPS so my water was only becoming more clean as time went by. Some of them also need a certain orientation to flow they grew up in to siphon well. I eventually concluded they just were not ever going to get better and got them out.

Interestingly enough I had a blue plating type of sponge appear out of nowhere about eight-ten months ago and thrive for two or three months nearly quadrupling in size. Then it just withered back away. No idea why.

One other thing to mention is that I've grown copious amounts of coralline. So much so that between it and the corals many of the barnacles have been sealed over. I only have them left in a few places.

 

[Fish Fan]

I am a recent convert to barebottom after 25 years of sand. My compromise is sand in multiple containers in the sump that I can easily take out and rinse once a year. It helps with stability, I think. I plan on just rotating the containers so the tank is stable.

Thank you, but please see my original post as this didn't answer my question ;-)

 

[Fish Fan]

The organisms are pretty hardy, they live close to Tampa!!! I bet you got most of the life that could make it, through the cycle.

Sounds reassuring, thank you!

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

Did any of you guys do the live sand too? I was thinking that might not be worth it, but if there's decent life in the sand......

Thanks guys, really appreciate the feedback!

-Fish Fan

I used live Gulf sand. It's not for everyone. Very coarse and full of broken shells. For me having grown up in Florida it was what I was used to seeing. But it definitely wasn't Fiji Pink.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

The organisms are pretty hardy, they live close to Tampa!!! I bet you got most of the life that could make it, through the cycle.

If you can live down-current of Tampa Bay it will take more than ammonia to do you in!

 

[rushbattle]

Thank you, but please see my original post as this didn't answer my question ;-)

Good point, sorry. I have used TBS live sand before and it was silty, but had plenty of life. Your circumstances dictate whether that would be worth it to you

 

[Fish Fan]

I did absolutely nothing to ensure their survival, as it was my very first reef tank and I'm ashamed to admit I didn't exactly know what I was doing at the time. In the first few days, I would describe the tank water as... disgusting to say the least, very dirty, perhaps even rancid... I even left the two decaying bivalves in the tank for at least a few days before removing them! Yet much of the life managed to survive.

I imagine if I had removed the decaying organisms and stayed on top of water changing, some of the less hardy species would have made the transfer as well.

Wow, good to know! This is looking very positive, I really wasn't expecting this kind of feedback. I was really expecting people to say the thrill was gone around 6 to 12 months in, but this is very reassuring. I think I'd like to try this on one tank for sure.

Thanks again!

 

[samnaz]

I've heard only great things about TBS, although I have no experience with them so I can't say for sure one is better than the other. As great as Gulf Live Rock was, I'm in the process of setting up a new tank and plan to order a small amount of rock from TBS just to see how they compare.

I don't believe live sand is at all necessary. Especially if you are going with live rock. I say definitely go with dry sand, that's all ya need, and it's even less expensive.