Looking 4 a programing cure for EB832 death screen

[Reefer Reboot]

By now, thanks to people like @MadeForThat and @_AV (and anyone else I missed), we seem to have a pretty good idea of the cause and cure for the dying EB832s. (Hint Hint Apex!) But for the people that are still running the "not quite dead yet" EB832s and who would like to avoid this well documented problem, I have a question that I will initially ask @SuncrestReef . Is it possible to program in a line for each 110v outlet so that after a power outage or shut down they do not all come back on at the same time? For example, at start up, a 10 second delay for outlet #1, 20 second delay for outlet #2, 30 second delay for outlet #3 and so on...…. My thoughts were that this would create less of a surge through the electronics of the EB832s, in effect ramping them back up. Any other input welcome. TIA!

 

[Biff0rz]

I haven't heard of this dying eb832 issue. Is it common?

 

[Reefer Reboot]

Yes! Check out these threads.

Another attempt at fixing Apex EB832

Some of my previous repairs: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/radion-xr30-complete-no-light-repair.792711/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/radion-lights-board-level-repair.774331/ https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ai-hydra-fan-connector-repair-significant-corrosion.793402/ First off, let me...

www.reef2reef.com

Fixing an EB832 with non-functional outlets but does have functional indicator lights

working fine for me. Should last just as long as the original on average haha, given it is the same part

www.reef2reef.com

Neptune apex

Does anyone have any experience going through warranty exchange with Neptune ? My power bar died and they want me to pay for shipping to have them inspect and repair it. This is the first time I've been asked for pay for shipping on a defected item

www.reef2reef.com

EB832 Voltage Error (No power)

All my pumps and lights just shut off and now my EB832 is giving me a low voltage error and it won’t power anything. Lights are all still working on EB832 and still connects to Apex Fusion but it is not sending power out to my equipment. The wall outlet is working just fine. Need help ASAP.

www.reef2reef.com

EB832 stopped working

Well, I was just finishing installing a new equipment board and unhooked my apex so I can run the cables and clean things up a bit, but when I plugged everything back in my EB832 just started to make a clicking noise. Lights on the unit look normal, but it doesn't supply power to the outlets. I...

www.reef2reef.com

EB832 Death Screen?

So I'm skimming through R2R when out of the blue my tank starts turning on and off. Tried a little troubleshooting and found that all of the 120v plugs would oscillate, 3 seconds off, 19 seconds on. When I turned off my return pump and display lights the other six outlets would stay on. So I...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[SuncrestReef]

By now, thanks to people like @MadeForThat and @_AV (and anyone else I missed), we seem to have a pretty good idea of the cause and cure for the dying EB832s. (Hint Hint Apex!) But for the people that are still running the "not quite dead yet" EB832s and who would like to avoid this well documented problem, I have a question that I will initially ask @SuncrestReef . Is it possible to program in a line for each 110v outlet so that after a power outage or shut down they do not all come back on at the same time? For example, at start up, a 10 second delay for outlet #1, 20 second delay for outlet #2, 30 second delay for outlet #3 and so on...…. My thoughts were that this would create less of a surge through the electronics of the EB832s, in effect ramping them back up. Any other input welcome. TIA!

Here's a method to stagger the startup of each EB output after a power outage:

1. Create a virtual output for each of the EB outputs you want to delay:

[Pwr_Delay_1]
Set OFF
If Power Apex On 000 Then ON
Defer 000:10 Then ON

[Pwr_Delay_2]
Set OFF
If Power Apex On 000 Then ON
Defer 000:20 Then ON

[Pwr_Delay_3]
Set OFF
If Power Apex On 000 Then ON
Defer 000:30 Then ON

(etc.)

On each EB832 output, add this line of code to the bottom of the existing programming:

If Output Pwr_Delay_# = OFF Then OFF
(replace # with the number of the virtual output corresponding to the EB832 output)

 

[MadeForThat]

A reboot cycle for the apex! We can call it a "reefer reboot"

 

[JeffB418]

Here's a method to stagger the startup of each EB output after a power outage:

1. Create a virtual output for each of the EB outputs you want to delay:

[Pwr_Delay_1]
Set OFF
If Power Apex On 000 Then ON
Defer 000:10 Then ON

[Pwr_Delay_2]
Set OFF
If Power Apex On 000 Then ON
Defer 000:20 Then ON

[Pwr_Delay_3]
Set OFF
If Power Apex On 000 Then ON
Defer 000:30 Then ON

(etc.)

On each EB832 output, add this line of code to the bottom of the existing programming:

If Output Pwr_Delay_# = OFF Then OFF
(replace # with the number of the virtual output corresponding to the EB832 output)

You’d think that they could roll a simple fix into their EB832 firmware to do this for ya and prevent failures. But then again, out of warranty EB832 repairs is good money too :/

 

[_AV]

There are a couple of factors at play here. One is that on power ON the EB8(32) will attempt to bring all programmed 110V outlets up after it receives the current outlet schedule from apex. 110V is mostly a passthrough except for the relays all going up at the same time. The other is that the EB8 is likely going to be busy powering up all of the modules over 12v and 24v outlets. The 12v aquabus power is what's going to stress the junk power supply inside even before any of the 110V outlets turn on. And you don't really have control over those ports power output. After all, they are used to power the Apex head unit itself and need to be on at all times.

 

[JeffB418]

There are a couple of factors at play here. One is that on power ON the EB8(32) will attempt to bring all programmed 110V outlets up after it receives the current outlet schedule from apex. 110V is mostly a passthrough except for the relays all going up at the same time. The other is that the EB8 is likely going to be busy powering up all of the modules over 12v and 24v outlets. The 12v aquabus power is what's going to stress the junk power supply inside even before any of the 110V outlets turn on. And you don't really have control over those ports power output. After all, they are used to power the Apex head unit itself and need to be on at all times.

Ah so this is why some people might not see this issue. Because on my setup I have a mix of old EB8/4 and EB832. So most likely the other EB8/4's are helping energize the bus power and relieve some stress on that part of the EB832.

 

[Reefer Reboot]

Thank you all for this valuable information. I am about to replace my dead EB832 with a new one and was trying to come up with something...ANYTHING... that might help alleviate this from happening again. Wouldn't it be nice if Apex would turn this PR debacle into a PR win by fixing this issue and show some loyalty to it's customers? I don't want this to sound like I am completely bagging on them as I do think their controllers are pretty good, but this one issue is not helping their reputation. Again, thanks for your input!

 

[JeffB418]

Thank you all for this valuable information. I am about to replace my dead EB832 with a new one and was trying to come up with something...ANYTHING... that might help alleviate this from happening again. Wouldn't it be nice if Apex would turn this PR debacle into a PR win by fixing this issue and show some loyalty to it's customers? I don't want this to sound like I am completely bagging on them as I do think their controllers are pretty good, but this one issue is not helping their reputation. Again, thanks for your input!

So Terrence mentioned a few times on livecasts that the UL testing they did on the EB832 was quiet expensive to complete. In addition he mentioned that if ANYTHING design wise changed on the EB832, that they would have to retest the unit again to get UL recertification. This might be a big reason why Neptune isn't publicly addressing this (yet), since any fix most likely hurt their bottom line in a potential recall, but in addition they will have to spit out more money for UL recertification. I think the UL stuff is prob playing a big part in this. One thing I am not sure of tho, does a firmware update require recert? That I do not know. But if they were to replace the power supply, that for sure would trigger them to either drop the UL cert or recert.

 

[robbyg]

So Terrence mentioned a few times on livecasts that the UL testing they did on the EB832 was quiet expensive to complete. In addition he mentioned that if ANYTHING design wise changed on the EB832, that they would have to retest the unit again to get UL recertification. This might be a big reason why Neptune isn't publicly addressing this (yet), since any fix most likely hurt their bottom line in a potential recall, but in addition they will have to spit out more money for UL recertification. I think the UL stuff is prob playing a big part in this. One thing I am not sure of tho, does a firmware update require recert? That I do not know. But if they were to replace the power supply, that for sure would trigger them to either drop the UL cert or recert.

UL certification is typically around $5000 and at most maybe $20K. For something like and EB832 that is already certified and is just having the Internal Power supply replaced it is not a big deal. If the Power supply board they are buying is already UL certified which it would have to be if they expect to be compliant then the procedure is very easy and cheap. I have been part of teams doing this so it is not SPECULATION.

 

[_AV]

I'd imagine, that since Neptune decided to make a soup of third party components (do you know how WiFi is implemented in Apex 2016? open it up and take a look..), finding another high quality component that would just fit the form factor of the original junk PSU may be a challenge and may require redesign of the board.
But regardless, I do agree that UL recertification costs is a lame excuse.

 

[JeffB418]

I'd imagine, that since Neptune decided to make a soup of third party components (do you know how WiFi is implemented in Apex 2016? open it up and take a look..), finding another high quality component that would just fit the form factor of the original junk PSU may be a challenge and may require redesign of the board.
But regardless, I do agree that UL recertification costs is a lame excuse.

hahaha

 

[JeffB418]

I posted this on the other post but it looks like Neptune changed this supply from a more expensive and much better Meanwell 12V supply to the cheap 12V version that’s failing.

here is the inside of my good and working eb832. This unit was made in late 2018 and does have a UL sticker on it:



I’ve talked to a couple people who have newer manufactured eb832 and they all have the other supply. These meanwell supplies are much more expensive and better quality, so I think at some point they might have redesigned as a cost cutting measure and introduced this issue themselves. Just a theory but it’s something interesting

 

[Terence]

I posted this on the other post but it looks like Neptune changed this supply from a more expensive and much better Meanwell 12V supply to the cheap 12V version that’s failing.

here is the inside of my good and working eb832. This unit was made in late 2018 and does have a UL sticker on it:



I’ve talked to a couple people who have newer manufactured eb832 and they all have the other supply. These meanwell supplies are much more expensive and better quality, so I think at some point they might have redesigned as a cost cutting measure and introduced this issue themselves. Just a theory but it’s something interesting

It is not uncommon for products to go through component revisions in their lifecycles for a number of reasons. For clarification sake, the unit pictured here is the newer, and currently shipping, version of the Energy Bar 832 in regards to that power supply part. I can assure you there has not been any cost cutting to the design over time by changing out components for lower cost or lower quality versions, in fact, the exact opposite is true.

While as a company we do not endorse DIY repair of the EB832 or any of our products for that matter, personally I do think its pretty cool how the community shares information and helps each other in this way.

I understand you all would like me to answer all kinds of questions here, but most of them I just cannot for a myriad of reasons - not the least of which is that they likely are out of my scope of knowledge.

 

[Reefer Reboot]

Fair enough. I plan on fixing my own but for the customers that won't attempt this, is there any special "fair" deal to get this fixed? I'm not talking about a full on recall, more of a voluntary thing between the customer and Neptune for when it's needed. How much would it cost them to get this issue fixed if they send it in?
PS, thanks for weighing in on this.