Looking for Advice on my Phyto Culture Setup

[cbleehk]

Hi,

I've never done phyto culture before but have started reading about it online and wanted to make it happen. My plan is to create a separate, in-fuge box for the continuous culture and harvest of the phyto illustrated below. I'm hoping to get your feedback whether this will work and if you foresee any problems down the road.

The box is a simple acrylic external overflow box that I'll put in the fuge. I'll have lighting & air stone to support the growth.

On a daily basis, I'll use a doser to add new salt water to the box causing it to overflow and add phyto to my fuge/tank. I'll also drop algae fertilizer into the box periodically.

The idea is to have a decently mostly-automated continuous supply of phyto to my fuge, which supports the creatures that live in my fuge.

This box will be about 1 gallon in volume. And I haven't decided how much new salt water I'll add to the box (overflow to the fuge) on a daily basis. The reason I have it in side the fuge is so the temperature is regulated.

What do you guys think? Would the phyto outgrow my tank's need so I'd have to separately harvest it? I'm thinking to use 1.026 salinity for the media since I have a separate refill tank right by that always have water in it. I don't really need it to have optimal growth, but I do need it to not have faster die off than my tank can consume. Otherwise I'm creating more chores to harvest, dump it or sell it.

Thanks!!

 

[Goodair]

Interesting, why not just drip tank water into it, you'd have stuff carry over which id imagine being useful.
This might get more feedback in the diy section btw!

 

[cbleehk]

Interesting, why not just drip tank water into it, you'd have stuff carry over which id imagine being useful.
This might get more feedback in the diy section btw!

From the readings, I think they don't want to add any contaminants into the culture, so it won't get other types of algae growing in there. I've got clean saltwater right by, so I guess I don't have to worry about this.

 

[scriptmonkey]

That is an interesting concept. I was reading last week that you can use phyto to out compete bad algae in a system. If you are using tank water, you may not need to dose fertilizer, it may be enough phosphates and nitrates in it. Now I must go research a phyto reactor.....

 

[Goodair]

That was my original thought, matching salinity, nutrients, temp. If algae DOES manage to outcompete, then you can try a seperate water source.
People do this with pods in thier refugium but what your trying to build has more control on the culture export.

 

[scriptmonkey]

That was my original thought, matching salinity, nutrients, temp. If algae DOES manage to outcompete, then you can try a seperate water source.
People do this with pods in thier refugium but what your trying to build has more control on the culture export.

If they are trying to just export culture a dose pump would take care of that easily. They seem to be trying to make a phyto treadmill.

So anyone think of any negative things about constantly dumping phyto into a tank? Also wouldn't skimming play hell on the phyto in tank?

 

[Goodair]

Some pics of the current system would be useful. The picture shows an overflow pipe coming down, so assuming the frags are in the sump.

If they are trying to just export culture a dose pump would take care of that easily. They seem to be trying to make a phyto treadmill.

So anyone think of any negative things about constantly dumping phyto into a tank? Also wouldn't skimming play hell on the phyto in tank?

Do you mean the protein skimmer messing with the phyto? It might be fine if there are multiple chambers and the skimmer is before the phyto area.

 

[cbleehk]

If they are trying to just export culture a dose pump would take care of that easily. They seem to be trying to make a phyto treadmill.

So anyone think of any negative things about constantly dumping phyto into a tank? Also wouldn't skimming play hell on the phyto in tank?

Currently I dose about 5ml Phytoplex daily. I feel that the fine tuning will depend on how dense my phyto culture is and both replenish new saltwater and dump phyto into the tank at equal rates. I think I probably only need to do this a few times a day 5-10 ml each dose perhaps. Again, I haven't had enough experience to tell.

But yes @scriptmonkey I'm definitely looking for potential problems here. I think I can figure out the math later.

 

[cbleehk]

Some pics of the current system would be useful. The picture shows an overflow pipe coming down, so assuming the frags are in the sump.



Do you mean the protein skimmer messing with the phyto? It might be fine if there are multiple chambers and the skimmer is before the phyto area.

You got it right. My fuge is fed by a T from the return pump and it overflows back to the return pump section. So the phyto/pods would go right up to DT.

 

[cbleehk]

So I was looking in the DIY section, the thread on phyto culture says this:

All phytoplankton grows in a certain pattern. The first part of the cycle is the initial cycle where the cells are just starting to divide. This is a relatively slow period of growth and lasts around a day (depending on the initial culture concentration). Next begins the exponential growth period. This is where the phytoplankton has the most nutrition and usually lasts between 6 and 10 days. After the growth curve is a period of no growth where the phytoplankton is basically using up its stored energy and nutrients because it has already consumed all the nutrients from the water. This period varies in time but can last several days for most phyto, but is relatively quick for T. Iso.

This growth curve is why it is important to harvest your culture during a set period of time when it is most nutritional and before it crashes. Normally, this will be between 7 and 10 days from the time the culture is started. It is particularly important with T. Iso because of the short period of time from its exponential growth period until it crashes.
​

This kind of contradict with the idea of having a small daily harvest. So if I don't do a big harvest, a percentage of those that stayed for 3 weeks will start to die. I wonder if anyone who's experienced with phyto culture can validate this.
@CJO ?

If my mix is not very dense and keep it like so by adding more refill water + use lower lights, could it have worked?

 

[cbleehk]

Bump? Maybe move this to DIY?

 

[salty joe]

Interesting idea. You could add f2 to the makeup water. Even though you will add clean water, I wonder how prone to contamination the set up will be. I also think you might not get sufficient circulation in a square gallon container unless you use multiple air stones. You would get good circulation with a single air stone with a 2 liter bottle. That would also give you a greater percentage of water change, if it helps.
If you do this, please keep us updated!

 

[cbleehk]

Yes I'm moving forward with this. I'll be away for a week and shall start once I return and when everything has arrived.

 

[bluprntguy]

In addition to what you posted, the phyto fertilizer contains phosphate and nitrates. I think you would want to wait until the phyto consumes all the fertilizer before you put it in your tank. If you put some phyto into your tank everyday, before the phyto has consumed all the fertilizer, you are basically just dosing your tank with phosphate and nitrates.

 

[cbleehk]

In addition to what you posted, the phyto fertilizer contains phosphate and nitrates. I think you would want to wait until the phyto consumes all the fertilizer before you put it in your tank. If you put some phyto into your tank everyday, before the phyto has consumed all the fertilizer, you are basically just dosing your tank with phosphate and nitrates.

OK this is new information I never thought of. Thanks for the input. In this case I'll need to do some testing and play by ear. I would imagine doing some tests with diluted phyto + tank water (with fertilizer). I wonder how concentrated the phosphate.

If the timing of dosing of each play a role, maybe I could dose ferts before lights go on, and phyto after lights out (10hrs later).

And perhaps a fallback plan would be to add a 2nd waterfall reservoir. Top tray will get ferts and culture the phyto, and a second reservoir collects/harvests phyto and it would then overflows to the sump.

 

[salty joe]

This would add a bit of complication but with a simple Arduino sketch, you could turn the air pump off long enough for the algae cells to drop to the bottom, then dose the concentrate. IDK how long it would take for the culture to be more concentrated at the bottom.

 

[PaulPerger]

I don't think you will add enough Phytoplankton to prevent crashing your culture. You mentioned it is a 1 Gallon tank. and you are currently adding 5 ml per day... That's a 757 day supply. Phytoplankton simply don't last that long.

I would suggest dosing more of a less dense culture, but there is no way to "automate" that, plus that would cause problems with your salinity, as you would be adding salt water which will mess with salt concentration as water evaporates.

Also, I have never seen anyone put Chaeto under their frag rack. I know that is not the subject of this post, but what is your reasoning for doing so? Just out of curiosity...

 

[cbleehk]

I don't think you will add enough Phytoplankton to prevent crashing your culture. You mentioned it is a 1 Gallon tank. and you are currently adding 5 ml per day... That's a 757 day supply. Phytoplankton simply don't last that long.

I would suggest dosing more of a less dense culture, but there is no way to "automate" that, plus that would cause problems with your salinity, as you would be adding salt water which will mess with salt concentration as water evaporates.

Also, I have never seen anyone put Chaeto under their frag rack. I know that is not the subject of this post, but what is your reasoning for doing so? Just out of curiosity...

Regarding chaeto under the rack, it’s actually not realistic. So I think I’ll scratch that. I do have a separate ATS. I’m just not sure how to house pods or Rotifers yet

You’re also correct about the salinity and rate of consumption. I’ll have to rethink that part. I’ll start culturing phyto separately first and play around and see.

 

[PaulPerger]

My DT is still under construction (will get wet this weekend), so I am a long way from having a Mandarin, but I have read up on them and I don't think I have seen or heard of anyone simply pouring them into their tanks (unless doing so as part of a water change, i.e. drain water, add pod colony in water, fill tank with new SW). Most filter them out of the water and then simply "rinse" the filter by dipping it in and releasing the pods into the sump or DT. And the same can be done if changing the water for the pods, set up a new container with new water, filter the old water to capture the pods and then add them to the new water.