Looking for feedback on 92 gallon SUMP design

[Kan9]

Hello, I'm looking for feedback on my measurements for a 92 gallon sump tank I'm building for my 215 gallon DT. Mostly Im interested in thoughts regarding:
1) the height of the 1st weir,
2) the heights and position of the bubble trap
3) and if the 3rd chamber with the return pump is the right size to allow for expected water level fluctuations when the return pump is turned off.
4) any and all other comments

Thank you in advance.

 

[sbash]

First, I'll assume the tank dimensions are 63x21x16 (LxWxH).

1- It's fine, with the second weir, there will only be a 1" drop to the fuge.
2- The bubble trap is inverted. I mean, it will work, but the first baffle is not needed. That said, you'll likely find the whole concept of a bubble trap in a sump this large is unnecessary. However, if you drop the first baffle, and put the weir up with 6-8" to the baffle, it will likely trap all the bubbles. (basically put the weir at the first baffle, and leave the second baffle where it is - although 12" is a bit much, lol)
3- With your currently design, my late-night math gives you around 27 gallons of room for excess from above. No worries there, but remember your return pump(s) will create a siphon when the pump is turned off.
4- Where is your skimmer going? With a sump this size, I would put a section for the skimmer and any potential reactors.

 

[Kan9]

Thanks for the reply. The dimensions you mentioned are correct.

You said "put the weir up with 6-8" to the baffle, it will likely trap all the bubbles. (basically put the weir at the first baffle, and leave the second baffle where it is - although 12" is a bit much, lol)" I'm not sure I follow?

I was planning on putting the skimmer in the first chamber (left of the refugium where the siphon drains), there will be a Large Bubble Magus Filter Roller that the tank will siphon into first in this chamber as well.

I've built the sump (bottom and walls only) and just need to place the weirs and baffles so its easy to move location, If it was your sump where would you place the 1st weir, baffles and 2nd weir?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

 

[sbash]

You said "put the weir up with 6-8" to the baffle, it will likely trap all the bubbles. (basically put the weir at the first baffle, and leave the second baffle where it is - although 12" is a bit much, lol)" I'm not sure I follow?

Yeah, lol, it's a weird thing to describe. Here's some pictures:

With your original design, I marked the water levels and the flow in blue. You see how the water exits the refugium at the bottom? That is going to cause the detritus and pod population right up into your display tank. I have tried this before and it was just messy; plus, it does not allow pods to significantly grow in population.

What I was suggesting is this:

Basically, the bubbles are trapped in the 12" section where you had the inverted bubble trap above. I suggested to reduce this to 8", 12 is likely overkill.

For reference, A typical bubble trap looks like this:

(Not my image, I found it elsewhere on the site). Although I'm suggesting you don't need the weir on the right.

I was planning on putting the skimmer in the first chamber (left of the refugium where the siphon drains), there will be a Large Bubble Magus Filter Roller that the tank will siphon into first in this chamber as well.

Gotcha, that makes sense!

I've built the sump (bottom and walls only) and just need to place the weirs and baffles so its easy to move location, If it was your sump where would you place the 1st weir, baffles and 2nd weir?

As long as all your equipment will fit in the 14x21x12 (LxWxH) first chamber, I would do what I posted above as the second image. A nice big fuge could be very useful, and worse case, you could put some reactors in it if you ever wanted/needed them (any reactor I have used also has an HOB option).

The important thing to note is how the bubble trap is supposed to work. If you google it, you are going to get results from very small sumps, so that skews how it will go in reality with large sumps. I had bubble traps in my 55 gallon sump but they didn't do anything so I pulled all the 'floating' baffles (i.e. the ones that aren't weirs) to give me more room.

I hope that helps!

 

[Kan9]

Yeah, lol, it's a weird thing to describe. Here's some pictures:

With your original design, I marked the water levels and the flow in blue. You see how the water exits the refugium at the bottom? That is going to cause the detritus and pod population right up into your display tank. I have tried this before and it was just messy; plus, it does not allow pods to significantly grow in population.

What I was suggesting is this:

Basically, the bubbles are trapped in the 12" section where you had the inverted bubble trap above. I suggested to reduce this to 8", 12 is likely overkill.

For reference, A typical bubble trap looks like this:

(Not my image, I found it elsewhere on the site). Although I'm suggesting you don't need the weir on the right.


Gotcha, that makes sense!


As long as all your equipment will fit in the 14x21x12 (LxWxH) first chamber, I would do what I posted above as the second image. A nice big fuge could be very useful, and worse case, you could put some reactors in it if you ever wanted/needed them (any reactor I have used also has an HOB option).

The important thing to note is how the bubble trap is supposed to work. If you google it, you are going to get results from very small sumps, so that skews how it will go in reality with large sumps. I had bubble traps in my 55 gallon sump but they didn't do anything so I pulled all the 'floating' baffles (i.e. the ones that aren't weirs) to give me more room.

I hope that helps!

Extremely helpful. Thanks for taking the time to explain. It makes sense that the last weir isnt needed. Ill post a pic here when I get it finished. Thanks again!

 

[Kan9]

Extremely helpful. Thanks for taking the time to explain. It makes sense that the last weir isnt needed. Ill post a pic here when I get it finished. Thanks again!

So...Not sure if I need to start another thread on this but since you've helped so much on the sump Im looking at my pre drilled holes in the DT. I have 2 holes for 3/4" pipe and 2 holes for 1" pipe, 4 total.

Im going with the bean animal style and planning on the main drain being a 1" pipe, the Durso a 1" pipe, the emergency a 3/4" pipe, and the return a 3/4" pipe. Itll be about a 5' lift, add in 2 45s, a T, and 2 yet to be decided line-locs or just 45s into the DT and I figure I have about 9'-10' head pressure.

That all leads me to my dilemma, assuming I need to net at least 1200 GPH turnover (DT is 215 gallon, 215x5= 1,075 GPH) I figured I'd use a pump like the Hydor Seltz D-Varia Flo 2400 and dial it back as/if needed. Now I'm realizing Im not figuring in the limiting effect of the return pipe size of 3/4", assuming it is limiting, and for that matter the 1" main drain (or the durso or the emergency drain). So theres my conundrum (with more to come Im sure)= What size pump and what really is the max GPH I can run with 1 3/4" return and the above drains with the above head pressure?

Thanks again for any input/opinions!

 

[sbash]

The 3/4" return is going to create more head pressure, so the 2400 pump may not cut it to get the turnover you want. The outlet size is 1.25" so you would be best to use a larger diameter than that. Check what the manufacturer recommends for most efficient pipe size. I'd bet you would get better flow with 1.5" pipe with the 3/4" bottleneck at the DT instead of 3/4" pipe the whole way.