Looking for Reef Actif Experiences

[Lou Ekus]

I suppose I might ping @Lou Ekus for feedback on this as well. I feel like I'm seeing my skimmer scumming up in a way that feels quicker than normal but I could be making that up. I would hate to simply be pulling the Reef Actif out of the water. Or even letting it crust on the outside of my skimmer as it overflows... Obviously no emergency but I'm just curious as to the product guidance.

I will let @Hans-Werner give his input on this. But in the meantime (and I'll find out if I am correct about this or not) I would say that it wouldn't be unusual to see a slight increase in your skimmate from the use of Reef Actif, but I also would say that increase is not skimming the total effect of the poduct out of your system. I often see people using skimmers and Reef Actif together with gret success. It may be a pain to empty the skimmate more often. But the benefits are well worth it.

 

[Skep18]

I will let @Hans-Werner give his input on this. But in the meantime (and I'll find out if I am correct about this or not) I would say that it wouldn't be unusual to see a slight increase in your skimmate from the use of Reef Actif, but I also would say that increase is not skimming the total effect of the poduct out of your system. I often see people using skimmers and Reef Actif together with gret success. It may be a pain to empty the skimmate more often. But the benefits are well worth it.

Thanks for the feedback. I always figured most people running tanks of any decent size use a skimmer as sort of default. Such a situation may or may not go hand-in-hand with being so committed as to considering a product such as this. I may be wrong. But as you touched on, I don't doubt there's still benefits but rather I'm curious how I maximize these benefits. Beyond that, maybe a bit more pragmatically, I don't want to skim a product I spent money on directly into my skimmer thus down the drain. So I guess this is sort of asking what the best practices might be.

Likewise, I had assumed all carbon dosing really relied on skimmers as sort of two-fold. First, to keep the water oxygenated. Second to skim off bacteria build up as a sort of nutrient export. I understand nutrient export is not a design consideration for this product so that might not be so much at play here.

All the same, I'm more and more intrigued by this product each day. The explained hypothesis/science behind carbon dosing and its effect on coral I find interesting. As such, I'd love to see the benefits of the theory unfold!

As always, thanks for taking the time to respond!

 

[Hans-Werner]

1. If stirred better, is it normal to see floating sediment around the tank?

2. My fish all started trying to eat the sediment that they could see. I have some young fish so they can see stuff quite small. I assume this won't be an issue? Seeing as its a seaweed derivate, it seems like it should be benign. That said, if its a "sugar" substance, can that much concentrate be noticeably detrimental to fish?

3. I put my skimmer on a 60min feed timer. Is this recommended to do each time to ensure the non-dissolved particulate isn't skimmed out of the water?

4. The pasty substance seems like it would thicken water. I would expect my skimmer to actively take this out. Should I leave it off for longer than 1hr?

1. It is normal that Reef Actif forms a visible cloudiness. Since it are biopolymers and not soluble sugars bacterial settling of the particles and bacterial breakdown take some time. After clearing up of the water it will be clearer than before because other small particles that form a very slight coudiness are precipitated with the Reef Actif particles.

2. Eating of the particles is no problem for fish or invertebrates in the tank. I even tried to feed filter feeders with Reef Actif with some success.

Reef Actif cannot be compared with soluble sugars in its effects. It is more of a prebiotic, insoluble fibers feeding the good bacteria in the fish intestines.

3. I have use Reef Actif in systems with and without skimmers, both with good results. In general skimmers do not take particles out of the water directly. Only indirectly skimming is enhanced after a few days due to the bacterial growth that Reef Actif feeds. Skimmers are taking out a little more of the typical dark brown skimmate.

4. Normally, when using saltwater like it is recommended, I have not observed a thickening effect of Reef Actif. It should mainly occur when using RODI water or freshwater. When using saltwater for suspending Reef Actif I expect no or little removal by skimming.

 

[Skep18]

1. It is normal that Reef Actif forms a visible cloudiness. Since it are biopolymers and not soluble sugars bacterial settling of the particles and bacterial breakdown take some time. After clearing up of the water it will be clearer than before because other small particles that form a very slight coudiness are precipitated with the Reef Actif particles.

2. Eating of the particles is no problem for fish or invertebrates in the tank. I even tried to feed filter feeders with Reef Actif with some success.

Reef Actif cannot be compared with soluble sugars in its effects. It is more of a prebiotic, insoluble fibers feeding the good bacteria in the fish intestines.

3. I have use Reef Actif in systems with and without skimmers, both with good results. In general skimmers do not take particles out of the water directly. Only indirectly skimming is enhanced after a few days due to the bacterial growth that Reef Actif feeds. Skimmers are taking out a little more of the typical dark brown skimmate.

4. Normally, when using saltwater like it is recommended, I have not observed a thickening effect of Reef Actif. It should mainly occur when using RODI water or freshwater. When using saltwater for suspending Reef Actif I expect no or little removal by skimming.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. As relayed, if the skimmer does not pull it out like i mistakenly thought, I think that indirectly answers most of my questions.

 

[Vested]

How exactly do the bio-polymers in reef actif work in the actual ocean? Just trying to understand the *specific* mechanics of this, can you be any more specific? What is a bio-polymer in reef actif and its function?
I think it would be more popular if you could explain its function in more detail. For example sunnyx’s diy coral snow is a flocculant (calcium carbonate) that is attracting actual particulates that can then be pulled out of the water with mechanical filtration from my understanding. This has a clear use and function with a clear reaction. I think everyone could point towards more specific effects of reef actif if we knew how it does what it does.

Personally I’ve been using reef actif regularly for a year or so now and like it. I cant say why though and would love to here a more detailed explanation.

@Hans-Werner

 

[UMALUM]

Following

 

[Lou Ekus]

How exactly do the bio-polymers in reef actif work in the actual ocean? Just trying to understand the *specific* mechanics of this, can you be any more specific? What is a bio-polymer in reef actif and its function?
I think it would be more popular if you could explain its function in more detail. For example sunnyx’s diy coral snow is a flocculant (calcium carbonate) that is attracting actual particulates that can then be pulled out of the water with mechanical filtration from my understanding. This has a clear use and function with a clear reaction. I think everyone could point towards more specific effects of reef actif if we knew how it does what it does.

Personally I’ve been using reef actif regularly for a year or so now and like it. I cant say why though and would love to here a more detailed explanation.

@Hans-Werner

I have explained this many times in other threads. I will try to recap a short version here. The bio-polymers in Reef Actif, are long chain marine polymers from sea weed. Just like other forms of carbon dosing, they act to feed beneficial forms of bacteria that then consume PO4 and other nutrients. These bacteria are then consumed by the filter feeding corals, and as a result, get the PO4, and other nutrients, they desperatley need. These long chain marine polymers are a particlarly gentle, very natural, slow acting way to do this. I am not a chemist, so diggin further into the exact chemical process on the molecular level of this, is "above my pay grade" . But those re the basics.

 

[Vested]

I have explained this many times in other threads. I will try to recap a short version here. The bio-polymers in Reef Actif, are long chain marine polymers from sea weed. Just like other forms of carbon dosing, they act to feed beneficial forms of bacteria that then consume PO4 and other nutrients. These bacteria are then consumed by the filter feeding corals, and as a result, get the PO4, and other nutrients, they desperatley need. These long chain marine polymers are a particlarly gentle, very natural, slow acting way to do this. I am not a chemist, so diggin further into the exact chemical process on the molecular level of this, is "above my pay grade" . But those re the basics.

Thanks Lou, I think I've watched or read just about everything you've said surrounding reef actif. It's always slightly different though and fairly vague to be honest, this is a great summary though. I do notice a consistent small dip in po4 within 12-24 hrs after dosing, I use the product when I notice po4 "stalling".
But reading in here hans said he did not notice any po4 consumption which is weird to me as the only thing I can kinda put my finger on. I've tested this on maybe 10 different tanks now.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Thanks Lou, I think I've watched or read just about everything you've said surrounding reef actif. It's always slightly different though and fairly vague to be honest, this is a great summary though. I do notice a consistent small dip in po4 within 12-24 hrs after dosing, I use the product when I notice po4 "stalling".
But reading in here hans said he did not notice any po4 consumption which is weird to me as the only thing I can kinda put my finger on. I've tested this on maybe 10 different tanks now.

Finally I discovered the effects of the ingredients in Reef Actif by chance. I did run trials with several substances that are already in use and new ones that seemed promising to me due to charged groups and adsorbant properties.

To be honest I did not see a very pronounced effect from the first things I tried like zeolithe powder although they are said to have a good effect.

In contrast I saw a very good effect after only a few days with the main ingredients in Reef Actif. Corals opened up much better. After a few weeks I saw improved growth and colors.

After starting selling, other users reported additional positive effects like more frequent mating behavior of fish.

I explained these effects with the growth of "beneficial bacteria" which is known now as prebiotic effect. I think this applies also to the effect on corals.

Bacterial activity may release phosphate from rocks and substrates and I think this is also what Reef Actif does. I think this is part of the positive effect to corals. I think the phosphate consumption and the phosphate release by bacteria are quite balanced, so usually we don't see much effect to water phosphate concentrations.

This is a lot of "I think" but I gave my best explanations and I am quite sure it works the way I have described it. The research on prebiotics, beneficial microorganisms an the role of microbiomes in organisms is still quite new and I think we have been and still are a kind of pioneers in this field.

 

[Koty]

I have used Reef Actif for over a year (1 spoonful/week/420 liters). Corals do like it. I use it with Elimi-NP (about 10 ml/day with a dosing pump). Both seem to work, as my mixed reef no-water-change tank looks great (IMO). Phosphate clearance, however, is still an issue, and I am now facing an annoying GHA outbreak. My nitrates are nicely low, 0-5 ppm. I plan to add a bag of GFO to lower the phosphate to around 0.1 (from 0.5-6). I used to dose A and K elements with my 3-part but decided that it may have contributed to the GHA. I have Cheato growing well and a skimmer on 100% power. Still, all export methods keep my corals very happy, but phosphate is too high

 

[bcarl77]

@Skep18 any updates on how things worked for you?

 

[Skep18]

@Skep18 any updates on how things worked for you?

Chasing the idea of heavy in, heavy out I expanded my dosing to the rest of their carbon lineup (i.e. Elimi-NP, NP-Bacto-Balance and Plus-NP). I wanted an easier regiment to maintain my PO4 as over maybe a month it would rise above 0.1ppm and I would use GFO to bring it down. Well any amount of NP-Plus seemed to strip my tank. I moved on to dosing PO4. But after sticking with it for 3 weeks or so, I just saw decline in my corals, namely SPS. Despite constant nutrient dosing and minimal carbon dosing, my tank just didn't like it. So, for those reasons, I stopped dosing the Reef Actif along with the other carbon products altogether.

To be clear, I don't have a negative feeling towards any of these products. Just seems the biology and bioload of my system doesn't lend itself to these products. I am using All-for-Reef now. Idk if that provides any meaningful "carbon dosing effects" but my PO4 stays in the range of <0.1ppm now days on its own.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Chasing the idea of heavy in, heavy out I expanded my dosing to the rest of their carbon lineup (i.e. Elimi-NP, NP-Bacto-Balance and Plus-NP). I wanted an easier regiment to maintain my PO4 as over maybe a month it would rise above 0.1ppm and I would use GFO to bring it down. Well any amount of NP-Plus seemed to strip my tank. I moved on to dosing PO4. But after sticking with it for 3 weeks or so, I just saw decline in my corals, namely SPS. Despite constant nutrient dosing and minimal carbon dosing, my tank just didn't like it. So, for those reasons, I stopped dosing the Reef Actif along with the other carbon products altogether.

To be clear, I don't have a negative feeling towards any of these products. Just seems the biology and bioload of my system doesn't lend itself to these products. I am using All-for-Reef now. Idk if that provides any meaningful "carbon dosing effects" but my PO4 stays in the range of <0.1ppm now days on its own.

What were your nitrate levels? Did you see any movement on those?

 

[Skep18]

What were your nitrate levels? Did you see any movement on those?

NO3 always reads zero in my tank. I've dosed NO3 as well as Ammonium Bicarbonate at times (including when I was using the TM carbon dosing products) and have been able to get numbers as high as 10ppm doing so. But my corals always seem to respond negatively. I feed frozen pretty heavily twice daily along with random pellet and nori feedings so my nutrient input is not insignificant. But my rockwork is covered in stuff including algae, etc. Figure it all gets absorbed pretty quickly.

 

[bcarl77]

I find it interesting that in your experience with the product that you didn't see success when your NO3 always read zero. Makes me think you may have not fed enough or had enough food for the coral load, thereby making the Reef Actif not effective as the bacteria didn't have proper Nitrate/Phosphate to multiply? Just a thought.

 

[areefer01]

I find it interesting that in your experience with the product that you didn't see success when your NO3 always read zero. Makes me think you may have not fed enough or had enough food for the coral load, thereby making the Reef Actif not effective as the bacteria didn't have proper Nitrate/Phosphate to multiply? Just a thought.

Bingo is bingo. Zero nutrients will not work this we know.

 

[crazyfishmom]

I just bought some reef actif. I love the TM products so I want to give this one a try. I definitely have high nutrients in this tank so we’ll see how it goes for me!

 

[Skep18]

Bingo is bingo. Zero nutrients will not work this we know.

No one said zero nutrients. I'll let my SPS know they should stop growing.

 

[Skep18]

I find it interesting that in your experience with the product that you didn't see success when your NO3 always read zero. Makes me think you may have not fed enough or had enough food for the coral load, thereby making the Reef Actif not effective as the bacteria didn't have proper Nitrate/Phosphate to multiply? Just a thought.

Since discontinuing carbon dosing my SPS, LPS and softies are back to growing and coloring up. I'm guessing carbon dosing may work better for tanks with less mature rocks and ecosystems. But this is just my single experience and speculative thoughts.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Since discontinuing carbon dosing my SPS, LPS and softies are back to growing and coloring up. I'm guessing carbon dosing may work better for tanks with less mature rocks and ecosystems. But this is just my single experience and speculative thoughts.

I think all of these bacterial dependent solutions are going to work differentially depending on many factors. We all watch our corals and try to do what’s best for them. I’m curious to see what happens in my tank when my reef actif comes in. Glad you found what works for your tank!