Looking for the truth about carbon

[Angelwolf21203]

I know there is A LOT of controversy on the use of carbon vs not using it. I have a 90g reef tank with mostly soft corals and mushrooms, along with 5 fish:
1 sub-adult Koran Angel
1 adult female Maroon Clown
1 adult male Blue Headed Wrasse
1 sub-adult male Lyretail Anthias
1 adult Copperband Butterfly

So I don't believe I'm "over-stocked" by any means. However, my angel had a pretty severe case of HLLE. I got advice from one of the other reefers on our forum that giving 1 floret of broccoli a day would help to heal him. I saw dramatic improvement in it, right away, and had hopes of a good recovery.

Now, for the carbon part. I have been using chemi-pure elite (with GFO, because my phosphates are always high). I use 2 bags, and believe me, I rinse them EXTREMELY well before putting them in my filter sock (highest flow in my sump)! We're talking about 5 minutes of rigorous high pressure water and agitation, and the water runs crystal clear, after.

Within the first hour of putting the new bags in, the DT water is so cloudy you almost can't see through the length of the tank. That gradually dissipates over about the next 48-72 hours, and then, my water is crystal clear until it's time to repeat the cycle all over again. And I am getting black, gritty skimate from my skimmer, so I know that's carbon dust, even after the extensive rinsing. And the packaging says it's a "quick-wash" carbon and only recommends rinsing for 5-10 seconds. (Crazy! I know.)

I have noticed a direct correlation between the severity of the HLLE and using the fresh bags of carbon. I have even seen a little bit of irritation/pitting in my wrasse's head, and white lips. The lips only lasted a day or so, but the pitting is going away more slowly. My angel went from healing well to worse than I have ever seen! It extends to his tail now and his head is completely white again.

I know many aquarists use carbon continuously, and many others never use it. But I need to control my nitrates and phosphates, so that's why I use it. I have tried many different brands and types, too. Pelletized, super-activated, bagged, un-bagged, in the filter sock, out of the filter sock, and none of that matters.

So I'm just looking for other members' experience and advice. Thanks in advance. (And I know 90g is too small for a Koran, but I cant sell him or even give him away in this condition, and a larger tank is out of the question, so please don't grill me over having him in the first place.)

 

[andrewey]

If your tank is turning opaque, you aren't rinsing enough. If the water doesn't run clear after passing through the carbon, you haven't rinsed enough. It's really as simple as that. I flush all my carbon- some products like ROX 0.8 take very little and others take a few gallons.

 

[Angelwolf21203]

If your tank is turning opaque, you aren't rinsing enough. If the water doesn't run clear after passing through the carbon, you haven't rinsed enough. It's really as simple as that. I flush all my carbon- some products like ROX 0.8 take very little and others take a few gallons.

I honestly don't think I can possibly be under-rinsing. I blast the bajeebees out of it for 5+ minutes! I'm really not exaggerating, either. And the water IS crystal clear when I'm done. I feel like, possibly, the cloudiness is actually related to the phosphate-reducing action of the GFO, because this is the first time I've used any kind of GFO, and haven't previously noticed any clouding with other brands of carbon.

 

[AlexG]

I keep a bag of carbon in my sump and swap it out every month or so. I consider the carbon a means to remove toxins from the water. Activated carbon will not have an impact on nitrates that are already present in the tank. I have never seen issues with using activated carbon in relation to fish having HLLE. Phosphate medias like GFO can remove phosphates but I never use the stuff as I rely on a refugium to keep phosphates managed. I always find that its best to understand what the nitrate and phosphate sources are and stop them before they become an issue.

 

[muzikalmatt]

I honestly don't think I can possibly be under-rinsing. I blast the bajeebees out of it for 5+ minutes! I'm really not exaggerating, either. And the water IS crystal clear when I'm done. I feel like, possibly, the cloudiness is actually related to the phosphate-reducing action of the GFO, because this is the first time I've used any kind of GFO, and haven't previously noticed any clouding with other brands of carbon.

I think this may actually be your issue. From my understanding, you don't want to blast carbon or rub it together as you actually start breaking up the particles creating more dust and finer particles. I would recommend trying a more gentle rinsing next time. Keep the water pressure fairly minimal, don't agitate the carbon or rub it together, just let the water pass through it gently and maybe flip the bag over once or twice to make sure you get it clean. I use chemipure blue in my tank and change out the bag once a month. I rinse it for maybe 15-20 seconds under a gentle water flow until it runs clear and haven't had any issues.

 

[Aqua Man]

you don't want to blast carbon or rub it together as you actually start breaking up the particles creating more dust and finer particles

Also want to add that in your sock could also make it tumble too much and cause it to break up. Those pellets in the chem pure are great. Usually have to rinse other carbon a long time to rinse clear. The pellets 45 seconds max. I’m using the little mesh bags for Nannos.

 

[ajhudson15]

I think this may actually be your issue. From my understanding, you don't want to blast carbon or rub it together as you actually start breaking up the particles creating more dust and finer particles. I would recommend trying a more gentle rinsing next time. Keep the water pressure fairly minimal, don't agitate the carbon or rub it together, just let the water pass through it gently and maybe flip the bag over once or twice to make sure you get it clean. I use chemipure blue in my tank and change out the bag once a month. I rinse it for maybe 15-20 seconds under a gentle water flow until it runs clear and haven't had any issues.

I agree. I have always heard that hlle is caused by to much carbon and when its in the filter sock it is probably getting hit kinda hard and when it tumbles or moves around the carbon starts breaking down into dust and gets put into the water column.

 

[AcroNem]

I'd like to add more and say that yes you are likely breaking it up in the filter sock, that's what is causing your problems. Also by "blasting it" I think you're rinsing in tap water, right?

 

[jda]

Strongly suggest that you not run GAC and GFO in the same vessel.

It is also easier to do in a reactor. Fill the reactor up, turn the pump on and let it run until the water is clear. Then put it on the tank. Reverse flow so that they carbon gets packed and stays put with the downward flow.

GFO in a reactor too, ever so gently tumbling so that it does not break up.

I have used GAC for almost 30 years, never had any water cloud issues nor HLLE.

 

[Angelwolf21203]

I agree. I have always heard that hlle is caused by to much carbon and when its in the filter sock it is probably getting hit kinda hard and when it tumbles or moves around the carbon starts breaking down into dust and gets put into the water column.

Ok. I will handle and rinse it more gently and see what happens. Maybe you're right, because they don't look like pellets at all, but more like granules. I have had some stuff before that was the same form as rabbit pellets. I will also not put it into the filter sock. The reason I was putting it there was because the instructions said to put it somewhere the water would tumble through it or in the area of the highest flow. The reason for this is that you don't want it to compact together.

So, for curiosity sake, what brand do you all use, and how often do you change it?

 

[Angelwolf21203]

I'd like to add more and say that yes you are likely breaking it up in the filter sock, that's what is causing your problems. Also by "blasting it" I think you're rinsing in tap water, right?

Yes, tap water. Then allowing the tap water to drain out before adding to the sump.

 

[ajhudson15]

Ok. I will handle and rinse it more gently and see what happens. Maybe you're right, because they don't look like pellets at all, but more like granules. I have had some stuff before that was the same form as rabbit pellets. I will also not put it into the filter sock. The reason I was putting it there was because the instructions said to put it somewhere the water would tumble through it or in the area of the highest flow. The reason for this is that you don't want it to compact together.

So, for curiosity sake, what brand do you all use, and how often do you change it?

I use aquarium masters off of amazon. Comes in a two pack. I change it every two weeks. I put it into a carbon reactor tightly packed so it doesn’t tumble around

 

[DaddyFish]

I use carbon foam. Got tired of all the carbon bags, pre-rinsing worries etc. I change foam once a week.

 

[Angelwolf21203]

I use carbon foam. Got tired of all the carbon bags, pre-rinsing worries etc. I change foam once a week.

Do you have a link?

 

[DaddyFish]

Do you have a link?

I have no idea why it's sometimes so difficult to find a link for things!

 

[Tastee]

But I need to control my nitrates and phosphates, so that's why I use it.

If you are using carbon in an effort to control Nitrates and Phosphates then that won’t work in the first place. Granulated Activated Carbon (GAC) won’t change either of these elements. GFO will reduce Phosphates and Carbon dosing can reduce both, but Carbon dosing is not GAC and is a completely different process.

Carbon is good for removing toxins from corals and other souces and is good for removing some chemicals that can colour water to improve the ‘crystal clear’ quality (pretty much purely cosmetic however). Lots of people, myself included, only run GAC when I feel there is a need.

Perhaps you don’t even need it, certainly not 24x7.

Happy to be corrected if those with more experience than me disagree, but that’s my understanding.

 

[Angelwolf21203]

I have no idea why it's sometimes so difficult to find a link for things!

Doesn't the carbon in the foam dissipate and loose it's effectiveness?

 

[DaddyFish]

Doesn't the carbon in the foam dissipate and loose it's effectiveness?

As does GAC. Many do not change GAC often enough. And some are fooled into believing that it can be rinsed for re-use. It all expires with use and age.

 

[Angelwolf21203]

As does GAC. Many do not change GAC often enough. And some are fooled into believing that it can be rinsed for re-use. It all expires with use and age.

Yeah. Even though there's no visible change.