Looking for Varios-8 return pump feedback on flow and leaking

[morrisr]

I am looking for feedback on what a Varios8 pump can actually supply at around 8 ft head height into 1" plumbing. Hopefully there is even someone out there with measured numbers using a Apex flow monitor.

I have looked at the posted flow charts that says at about 8ft it should produce around 1100- 1200 gph. But I am looking for real data from actual users.

I want a minimum total of 1120 GPH to drive the return flow (750 gph) and a manifold driven dual chamber GFO/Carbon reactor (~370 gph). The tank return head height is about 5 feet taking into account plumbing length, elbows and height of the return outlet. I don't have a number for the apparent head height of the reactor, but am guessing it is a couple of feet. So I think 8 feet total is a good planning number.

Anyone have any data I can use?

Also I spoke to my LFS last night and he claims that he has tried running the Varios8 externally and has a lot of problems with them leaking. Has anyone else ran them externally and found issues?

Thanks!

 

[bif24701]

Have you tried using a headl pressure lose calculator. Head pressure lose/flow is more than just height. Also I would not recommend 1" pvc. You are going to lose a lot using 1" vs 1 1/4" or even better 1 1/2". The larger diameter pvc has less water lose of pressure due to friction, bigger the better. Obviously the output may be smaller but all plumbing up to that point still counts and if you use smaller PVC you will lose more flow.

 

[bif24701]

I have a Varios-6 and love it. I have not used it externally, but did he say exactly where the leak occurred? I've seen the pump and there is no reason for me to think it would leak. They are well made.

 

[morrisr]

Have you tried using a headl pressure lose calculator. Head pressure lose/flow is more than just height. Also I would not recommend 1" pvc. You are going to lose a lot using 1" vs 1 1/4" or even better 1 1/2". The larger diameter pvc has less water lose of pressure due to friction, bigger the better. Obviously the output may be smaller but all plumbing up to that point still counts and if you use smaller PVC you will lose more flow.

Yes, I have used the head pressure calculators. Most of them take into account the plumbing length, number and type of elbows, unions, etc. A few nicer ones have a place to add "misc head pressure" for things like reactors. But knowing just how much to add as "misc" for a given reactor is a mystery unless someone has done the measurements somewhere. But those are what I used to calculate my head height estimate.

As for the plumbing size, the tank's return is 1", so no choice there. Using bigger pipe in the plumbing won't make any appreciable real world difference overall. If I am cutting is so close that the frictional difference between 1" and, say 1.5" plumbing from the pump to the tank is a factor, then I am way exceeding the accuracy tolerance of any head loss calculator or pump specs.

 

[bif24701]

Yes, I have used the head pressure calculators. Most of them take into account the plumbing length, number and type of elbows, unions, etc. A few nicer ones have a place to add "misc head pressure" for things like reactors. But knowing just how much to add as "misc" for a given reactor is a mystery unless someone has done the measurements somewhere. But those are what I used to calculate my head height estimate.

As for the plumbing size, the tank's return is 1", so no choice there. Using bigger pipe in the plumbing won't make any appreciable real world difference overall. If I am cutting is so close that the frictional difference between 1" and, say 1.5" plumbing from the pump to the tank is a factor, then I am way exceeding the accuracy tolerance of any head loss calculator or pump specs.

Put it in the calculator and find out. If the run from pump to bulk head is 2' then yea may not do much. I have my sump in another room, so doesn't add much height but an extra 6-7' and I save 350gph using 1 1/4" over 1".

 

[morrisr]

I have a Varios-6 and love it. I have not used it externally, but did he say exactly where the leak occurred? I've seen the pump and there is no reason for me to think it would leak. They are well made.

He did not say where it leaked, just that he tried several of them and they all did, so he uses them as internal only. I'll have to go back and ask him. But again, he was pushing the Vectra M1 he has in stock too.

I would like to use it external just because of limited sump return chamber space, heat, maintenance, etc. But it is not a must-have.

 

[bif24701]

I would say your estimated calculation is pretty close for everything except the reactors. That greatly dependent on a lot of other stuff. Maybe consider a bigger pump if you really must have those number.


Question why do you need exactly that amount of flow?

You can get a bigger DC Pump and turn it down.


My advice though. The Varios-8 is going to be enough. Get the pump.

 

[Friday24]

My VarioS-8 is installed on my 300DD, i've never done the calculator for head pressure, but with out elbows and all that the tank sits about 6ft to the top. I take the 1-1/4" in to a T then reduce down in to two 1" lines and I'm getting about 1300ghp on the return side according to my dual 1" Apex flow meters, and thats running the pump at 82%. I run a VarioS-2 for a manifold pump.

 

[morrisr]

Put it in the calculator and find out. If the run from pump to bulk head is 2' then yea may not do much. I have my sump in another room, so doesn't add much height but an extra 6-7' and I save 350gph using 1 1/4" over 1".

Not much impact for me, my sump is directly below my return, so just a couple of elbows, the straight up.

 

[morrisr]

I would say your estimated calculation is pretty close for everything except the reactors. That greatly dependent on a lot of other stuff. Maybe consider a bigger pump if you really must have those number.

Question why do you need exactly that amount of flow?
.

I'm not looking to get exactly that amount, but as I said in the post, I want a minimum of that amount. So if the Varios8 is below it, or barely hits it, then it isn't big enough for what I want. BEing enough flow to turn it down to get that flow is the goal. That'd why Io am hoping someon here has real experience and not just go by the numbers CoralVue advertises.

 

[bif24701]

I'm not looking to get exactly that amount, but as I said in the post, I want a minimum of that amount. So if the Varios8 is below it, or barely hits it, then it isn't big enough for what I want. BEing enough flow to turn it down to get that flow is the goal. That'd why Io am hoping someon here has real experience and not just go by the numbers CoralVue advertises.

No one has the same set up as you. All you can get is numbers, if you can't trust the numbers that CoralVue lists than just get a bigger pump. I think that the number are accurate, at lest for my pump.

Like APEX has said in their videos on the FMK actual flow rates probably are still going to be lower than you think they are because of other variables. If it's coming out to be right on the line and lower than that just won't work then you need a more powerful pump.

 

[Scott.h]

Have you tried using a headl pressure lose calculator. Head pressure lose/flow is more than just height. Also I would not recommend 1" pvc. You are going to lose a lot using 1" vs 1 1/4" or even better 1 1/2". The larger diameter pvc has less water lose of pressure due to friction, bigger the better. Obviously the output may be smaller but all plumbing up to that point still counts and if you use smaller PVC you will lose more flow.

Is it ground hog day or what?

Use the biggest pipe you can.. say 2", buy the pump. You won't run it at 100%.

My various 6 at like 8' of head pressure can't run at more then like 70% as my overflow can't handle the volume.

 

[gcrawford]

Not flow related, but I have two Varios-6 pumps on two systems that work very well. One thing to note is that I've had one pump seize after a power failure and getting the ceramic bearing off one side of the ceramic shaft is near impossible. I soaked it in vinegar for quite some time and worked it back and forth and finally got it off, but had to pull the impeller head off the shaft which required breaking the glued connection. One ceramic bearing is between the magnet and the impeller head that pushes water. Odd design to me. I got it back together and it wouldn't start. I ordered two new impellers and they seem to have updated the design - although still would be difficult to access the bearing. It's been working ever since. My second pump (another system) jammed yesterday after another power outage. I unplugged the power supply at the controller, plugged it back in (always sparks when I do that) and it started. Luckily I ordered two impellers - going out of town soon and will probably go ahead and replace that one.

 

[bif24701]

Not flow related, but I have two Varios-6 pumps on two systems that work very well. One thing to note is that I've had one pump seize after a power failure and getting the ceramic bearing off one side of the ceramic shaft is near impossible. I soaked it in vinegar for quite some time and worked it back and forth and finally got it off, but had to pull the impeller head off the shaft which required breaking the glued connection. One ceramic bearing is between the magnet and the impeller head that pushes water. Odd design to me. I got it back together and it wouldn't start. I ordered two new impellers and they seem to have updated the design - although still would be difficult to access the bearing. It's been working ever since. My second pump (another system) jammed yesterday after another power outage. I unplugged the power supply at the controller, plugged it back in (always sparks when I do that) and it started. Luckily I ordered two impellers - going out of town soon and will probably go ahead and replace that one.

That kind of stuff can happen to a lot of pumps. Pumps Like an Iwaki do not have as many issues with things like that because of the way they are designed and operate. Precipitation can prematurely foul out bearings and it's important to remove them and check them, hopefully catch that before it gets bad. When I started my system I was getting a lot of precipitation on pumps and learned how to reduce it. That is a key to long pump life, not just the construction of the pump. Since I have not seen any precipitation on any of my pump bearing since.

Randy Holmes has an article about reducing precipitation. You should google it, that's how I learned to prevent it.

 

[gcrawford]

That kind of stuff can happen to a lot of pumps. Pumps Like an Iwaki do not have as many issues with things like that because of the way they are designed and operate. Precipitation can prematurely foul out bearings and it's important to remove them and check them, hopefully catch that before it gets bad. When I started my system I was getting a lot of precipitation on pumps and learned how to reduce it. That is a key to long pump life, not just the construction of the pump. Since I have not seen any precipitation on any of my pump bearing since.

Randy Holmes has an article about reducing precipitation. You should google it, that's how I learned to prevent it.

Thanks so much, I'll take a look. I had an iwaki on there that went for years without issue, but like you said, different design. Best of luck with your new pump.

 

[creas]

I have the Varios 6 with approx. 10' of plumbing (a mix of 1" and 3/4") including carbon and GFO reactors and on the second power setting I'm getting 578GPH. It goes to around 1,100 on full power.

 

[TX_Punisher]

As someone mentioned above, you won't get an answer. Every application is different. Aside from the pump being so new.

I've got one in the box waiting for a tank

 

[schaNYC]

I have the Varios 6 with approx. 10' of plumbing (a mix of 1" and 3/4") including carbon and GFO reactors and on the second power setting I'm getting 578GPH. It goes to around 1,100 on full power.

How is the noise level when you max out the power?