Looking to redo my aquascape

[Be102]

Currently I have about 60-75 lbs of all live rock in my tank, however when I first picked it out I wasn't really sure what to choose as a new hobbyist, and mostly just grabbed flat shelf-like flat rocks. I am curious if I could remove some of the rocks and somehow break them down into smaller pieces? Is that possible? If so what type of tools / process would that consist of? I understand the rock can't get dry or it will allow beneficial bacteria to die off. I am probably going to use basic zip ties or even superglue to get the rocks to stay together. Will any superglues work and not be toxic to the tank? I saw BRS has some dry rock that I was wondering if I could add that to my tank as well? Is there a process for that? Will it seed fairly quickly with all the other live rock?

 

[PatW]

I don't think super glue would work. There are reef safe putties you could use with super glue.

Most of the rocks are some form of lime stone. They are not that strong usually. Artificial reef rock is usually a concrete and that could be challenging.

You could use a mallet and chisel to break them up. For more control, you could get a concrete bit and drill holes along the fracture plane you want. Then use the mallet and chisel.

 

[DED65]

You can use a hammer and a masonry chisel to break the rock into smaller pieces. Take it slow and you can get roughly the shape that you want. The rock will survive for a little while out of the water. You can always put the rock in a bucket of tank water and work a piece at a time. JB Water Weld works well to hold the rock in the design you want. I only put a few pieces together as I may need to remove it at later time for whatever reason. I use the Gorilla super glue gel (Cyanoacrylate) as it is cheaper and you get a lot more than the other brands, but I only use it to hold corals in place. It is safe to use. I used the BRS dry rock and cycled it in a plastic tub for about one month to help rid of any phosphates.

 

[Be102]

You can use a hammer and a masonry chisel to break the rock into smaller pieces. Take it slow and you can get roughly the shape that you want. The rock will survive for a little while out of the water. You can always put the rock in a bucket of tank water and work a piece at a time. JB Water Weld works well to hold the rock in the design you want. I only put a few pieces together as I may need to remove it at later time for whatever reason. I use the Gorilla super glue gel (Cyanoacrylate) as it is cheaper and you get a lot more than the other brands, but I only use it to hold corals in place. It is safe to use. I used the BRS dry rock and cycled it in a plastic tub for about one month to help rid of any phosphates.

Will the JB water weld be able to be mixed and sculpted outside the tank, with moist live rock? Will it stick? Does the super glue not provide enough strength to hold the rocks? How would I go about cycling the dry rock in order to add it to my tank? I was under the impression that dry rock could be added directly to the tank.

 

[DED65]

I find the superglue separates easily which is good for coral placement, not good for heavy rock. The water weld will work outside of tank, it is used for plumbing repairs and is non toxic. The dry rock can contain organics that can cause ammonia spikes and also dry rock can release phosphates. The phosphates can cause algae issues. I put mine in a tub with saltwater, heater and powerhead, added ammonia to start the cycle. I tested for ammonia until the cycle completed and then tested for phosphates until these came down. There are threads using acid as a way to remove any organics, I don't know what this will do to the phosphates though. Most rock suppliers I have seen recommend curing before using their rock. Marco Rocks does have rock they say can be added without an ammonia spike.

 

[Be102]

I find the superglue separates easily which is good for coral placement, not good for heavy rock. The water weld will work outside of tank, it is used for plumbing repairs and is non toxic. The dry rock can contain organics that can cause ammonia spikes and also dry rock can release phosphates. The phosphates can cause algae issues. I put mine in a tub with saltwater, heater and powerhead, added ammonia to start the cycle. I tested for ammonia until the cycle completed and then tested for phosphates until these came down. There are threads using acid as a way to remove any organics, I don't know what this will do to the phosphates though. Most rock suppliers I have seen recommend curing before using their rock. Marco Rocks does have rock they say can be added without an ammonia spike.

Did you supplement the ammonia with something like prime? I guess I wasn't really aware that the rock must be cycled (despite it clearly saying it on the page). I would easily be able to do the same thing you did with a bucket to cure it so it's ready to add to the tank. Did you do any water changes in this bucket? Did any sort of life grow? Could I dump some birospira in?

I have been looking at reviews and the water weld seems pretty consistent across reefers. Do you think I would have problems with pulling a few rocks at a time, placing them on a tarp or something and create some sort of aquascape, weld, and put back into the tank without too many problems? I would most likely hold the rocks from the bottom so it should be more about stability long term rather than some crazy instability in the structure at the time of re adding to the water.. I just don't want die off to occur by stuff I can't see.

 

[DED65]

Prime will remove ammonia. I use pure ammonia from Ace Hardware, but you can feed with fish food too. After the cycle, you should be able to pull the rock, keep moist and not have too much die off. I did change water several times after the ammonia cycle to reduce phosphates. You shouldn't see any life from dry rock, just bacteria and it does stink. You can use a piece of live rock to kickstart the cycle.

 

[Be102]

Prime will remove ammonia. I use pure ammonia from Ace Hardware, but you can feed with fish food too. After the cycle, you should be able to pull the rock, keep moist and not have too much die off. I did change water several times after the ammonia cycle to reduce phosphates. You shouldn't see any life from dry rock, just bacteria and it does stink. You can use a piece of live rock to kickstart the cycle.

Does the live rock go into the bucket with the new dry rock? Or does it take some time first? I'm not really sure what each aspect does but wouldn't adding ammonia to a bucket with live rock kill it? If one was to put a piece of fish food in, does it eventually disintegrate?

 

[DED65]

The ammonia feeds the bacteria, the bacteria lives on (and in) the rock and consumes the wastes from the fish and corals. The live rock can go in with the dry rock to help start the bacterial cycle, but you take a chance of introducing things you may not want. If you are worried about making your rockscape after the rock is cycled, you can always make your design and then cycle the rock. You should read about the nitrogen cycle, there is lots of information here and on Google.

 

[Be102]

The ammonia feeds the bacteria, the bacteria lives on (and in) the rock and consumes the wastes from the fish and corals. The live rock can go in with the dry rock to help start the bacterial cycle, but you take a chance of introducing things you may not want. If you are worried about making your rockscape after the rock is cycled, you can always make your design and then cycle the rock. You should read about the nitrogen cycle, there is lots of information here and on Google.

So is the reason why ammonia is toxic to fish is because it will raise the levels of bacteria? I guess I was more interested in creating some sort of aquascape that if I was going to use the dry rocks, I could do exactly what you said. That's a great idea. Set the rocks up, epoxy them together then cycle for a while. Could I use my saltwater I remove from my tank to speed the process up? Would it be detrimental to a piece of live rock if I through it in the bucket with it? Or would it just cause more bacteria to actually grow on my rocks now?

 

[DED65]

Ammonia is toxic to most living things. The bacteria consume the ammonia, convert to nitrite, other bacteria convert this to nitrates... You want the bacteria to complete this cycle, this is why you cycle. The bacteria is not toxic, ammonia is. You will be fine to put live rock to speed up the cycle. Bacteria live on, and in the rock, not in the water column. Adding used tank water won't hurt, but probably won't speed things up.

 

[Be102]

Ammonia is toxic to most living things. The bacteria consume the ammonia, convert to nitrite, other bacteria convert this to nitrates... You want the bacteria to complete this cycle, this is why you cycle. The bacteria is not toxic, ammonia is. You will be fine to put live rock to speed up the cycle. Bacteria live on, and in the rock, not in the water column. Adding used tank water won't hurt, but probably won't speed things up.

If I was to put the live rock in to speed the cycle up, would it be a bad idea to also put ammonia inside of the bucket? Like will the ammonia kill off the live rock that I add as well?

 

[DED65]

You need a food source (ammonia) to feed the bacteria. They will not grow without this. You can use fish food, dead shrimp, pure ammonia (no detergents) to accomplish the cycle. You need to get the level high enough to increase the population of the bacteria. Add a source of ammonia, bring up to 2 ppm and start testing to see when the level drops to 0 and then add small amounts to keep the bacteria alive. After the level drops start testing for nitrites until they drop to 0. This is the point where the rock will be live. Adding ammonia will not kill the live rock at these levels. It will give the bacteria a food source so they can multiply. Once in the tank, excess food, fish and coral waste (ammonia) will feed the bacteria. Ammonia and the nitrogen cycle are a natural process and all living things create ammonia. Read up on the nitrogen cycle and you will better understand the process.