Loosing fish.. and asking for thoughts

[Boco]

So i have a Evo 13.5 and my parameters arenin check and have been counter verified with secondary tests.

0 amonia
0 nitrite
10 nitrate
8.2 PH
0 Phosphate
1.025 salinity

I have had the same clowns for about a year then last week i woke up and they were all dead, all test proved the same readings as above with the exception of nitrate that was at 15. I did a 4 gallon water change and dosed additional Bacteria and allowed the tank to be stable for a week and i went and got some new clowns (pre quarantined). Then today after having them in for 2 days one died. Now i had just fed the tank and they ate well. About 2 hours later the tank has a really strong fishy smell and is very cloudy. I had started using aquaforrest liquid mysis about a month ago and the LFS had said its good in the fridge for about 6 months so i figured id give it a try. But now after this incident and trying to find a culprit the only thing i can come to is the food maybhave spoiled and there is nothing on the bottle saying how long its good for other then an expiration date 2 years out. Anyone have experience with this or have any other thoughs as to what cpuld be causing this? If ots just the food ill be happy but i want to make sure im jot missing anything. My other clown is in a small hospital tank and was showing sighns of stress until i moved it to the hospital and now is lively and active... Just a bit confused..

 

[Suohhen]

It could be low oxygen or stray voltage. Could also be brook or velvet but the fact that moving the fish showed improvement makes that less likely. Could also be any sort of toxin in the water, do you have any coral or anemones and is it possible there was a chemical used near the tank?

 

[Boco]

I do have an anemone in the tank and it has been there with the prior clowns. I also have a yellow watchmen thats still in the tank and doing well as of right now i just cant catch it to get it out, so i think stray voltage is less likely.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I do have an anemone in the tank and it has been there with the prior clowns. I also have a yellow watchmen thats still in the tank and doing well as of right now i just cant catch it to get it out, so i think stray voltage is less likely.

Stray voltage is a "red Herring", the fish are not grounded, so there is no current flow. Same reason a bird can roost on a powerline.

Is the anemone O.K.? Are there other invertebrates and are they o.k.?

Does the tank have any aeration? (Not just circulation, but something that breaks the surface tension of the water)

The cloudy water and smell is likely a symptom of heterotrophic bacteria feeding on some organic material, and as mentioned, can cause low oxygen/high carbon dioxide issues.

It is possible that the deaths of the two groups of clowns are not related.

Jay

 

[Boco]

Stray voltage is a "red Herring", the fish are not grounded, so there is no current flow. Same reason a bird can roost on a powerline.

Is the anemone O.K.? Are there other invertebrates and are they o.k.?

Does the tank have any aeration? (Not just circulation, but something that breaks the surface tension of the water)

The cloudy water and smell is likely a symptom of heterotrophic bacteria feeding on some organic material, and as mentioned, can cause low oxygen/high carbon dioxide issues.

It is possible that the deaths of the two groups of clowns are not related.

Jay

The anemone is alive its not happy but its alive, so is my clam and other inverts. And as of last night my watchmen was also but i haven't been able to capture to get into my hospital tank as a just incase.

It is true they are unrelated but the more i look through the only thing that makes sense is it may be an issue with the food as i have only been using it for about a month, the shop states its safe once open for up to 6 months but im not finding info on the manufacturer site thag confirms so i have reached out to fact check the LFS. The reason I'm thinking it MAY be the food is that everyone was happy active and eating and no smell at 9 pm (i feed pellets mid day) but when i added some mysis only 2 fish ate this time witch was odd and they didnt eat much i only saw them eat like 2 pieces. And those are the 2 fish that died by about 11.
Also my return breaks the surface tension but i have aimes it up to further break it as a preventative measure. I may try and dig up an old air stone and throw it in the back section before the pump for the time being.

 

[Suohhen]

Looking at your build thread it says you have a tiger tailed cucumber?

 

[Boco]

Looking at your build thread it says you have a tiger tailed cucumber?

That was in the first batch that died. Originally i thought they died because of of that dying but. Since a few more died after that was out of the tank and i basically did a large water change i think the more likely culprit is the food. I decided to give it the good ol smell test and it smells rank and fishy and theres a few blue misys that im seeing as i move the bottle around. Im at this point almost sure thats the cause as again everyone was happy and eating and that was the forst misys feeding i did and then about an hour later the fish were struggling and i lost another.

 

[Suohhen]

The issue is that it is common for new additions to die. So it may seem like the deaths are linked but we can't be sure. Regardless we can only move forward from here so I would run carbon and keep up with the water changes and ditch the food. Not really sure what else can be done. Sorry for your losses.

 

[Boco]

The issue is that it is common for new additions to die. So it may seem like the deaths are linked but we can't be sure. Regardless we can only move forward from here so I would run carbon and keep up with the water changes and ditch the food. Not really sure what else can be done. Sorry for your losses.

No worries i just wanted to get a second opinion. As i know they can tend to die as new additions. But it was mostly after feeding that got me thinking the food and i dont know why i didnt think of giving the food a smell last night when i lost the fish. But my other clowns are happy and eating this morning in my hospital tank and they were struggling last night. And my anemone has moved but is back open and seemingly health same with my all Clam. The smellfrom the tank has significantly reduced also and all parameters are in check. Nitrate is back to 0 unfortunately but in time thatbwill rise back up some.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The anemone is alive its not happy but its alive, so is my clam and other inverts. And as of last night my watchmen was also but i haven't been able to capture to get into my hospital tank as a just incase.

It is true they are unrelated but the more i look through the only thing that makes sense is it may be an issue with the food as i have only been using it for about a month, the shop states its safe once open for up to 6 months but im not finding info on the manufacturer site thag confirms so i have reached out to fact check the LFS. The reason I'm thinking it MAY be the food is that everyone was happy active and eating and no smell at 9 pm (i feed pellets mid day) but when i added some mysis only 2 fish ate this time witch was odd and they didnt eat much i only saw them eat like 2 pieces. And those are the 2 fish that died by about 11.
Also my return breaks the surface tension but i have aimes it up to further break it as a preventative measure. I may try and dig up an old air stone and throw it in the back section before the pump for the time being.

One thing to be aware of with frozen fish food (and you may know this). The products are not handled well at all - they have a tendency to be allowed to thaw at various points in the supply chain - especially from the wholesaler to the dealer. Then, I've seen dealers holding frozen foods in regular household freezers, and opening and closing the door allows the temperature to rise. Enough of that, and bacterial issues and occur.

Jay

 

[Boco]

One thing to be aware of with frozen fish food (and you may know this). The products are not handled well at all - they have a tendency to be allowed to thaw at various points in the supply chain - especially from the wholesaler to the dealer. Then, I've seen dealers holding frozen foods in regular household freezers, and opening and closing the door allows the temperature to rise. Enough of that, and bacterial issues and occur.

Jay

Yea thats why i wanted to try the liquid non frozen form as i hoped that would be safer since i have gotten some nasty looking food in the past

 

[Suohhen]

One thing to be aware of with frozen fish food (and you may know this). The products are not handled well at all - they have a tendency to be allowed to thaw at various points in the supply chain - especially from the wholesaler to the dealer. Then, I've seen dealers holding frozen foods in regular household freezers, and opening and closing the door allows the temperature to rise. Enough of that, and bacterial issues and occur.

Jay

True but that is kinda like working at a cheese factory and watching a rat run up the conveyer into the grinder. If you don't work in the factory and see it then your not going to worry about it...or at least I hope I haven't ruined cheese for anyone ;Meh
Anyways I think most of this food is way over sterilized to imagine any significant amount of bad bacteria is going to develop in a foil sealed blister pack. But that is just my thought as I have never experienced or really even see someone establish the idea that poorly handled frozen food can be an issue, maybe I'm out of touch. Refridgerated food that was handled by someone else however...I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft stick. But that's just me.
Edit: There are reasons a lot of people make their own food so I'd take that as some indication that their is at least a perception that any food handled by others can be an issue.