Losing it all...how do we stop the madness?

Neoalchemist · May 24, 2019

I'm sure the switch to sodium bicarbonate from calcium hydroxide played a role and maybe you did get an off batch of salt, but the extremely high phosphates (2-3) coupled with a rapid drop in phosphates are what I believe are the root cause.
You've already mostly corrected the problem by bringing po4 down to .1 (smart stopping at .1 by the way).
Be slower about bringing po4 down farther.
GFO can be a lot more dangerous than most realize and some systems don't tolerate it at all.

MnFish1 · May 24, 2019

Blackice615 said:
Here's what I switched to. Sodium carbonate

That may be part of your problem if it was done quickly - thats not the same as 'kalkwasser' thats a sodium carbonate - the other is calcium hydroxide (I may be misunderstanding but in your oP you said I switched to arm and hammer for 'kalkwasser'. That said - you can use soda ash (the arm and hammer - you just need to use a different amount.

Your testing (to me) doesn't make sense - how would changing from kalkwasser (Calcium hydroxide) to soda ash - make your Ca rise from 360 to 480? Did the change in the corals start after you started the phosguard or before? Have you verified all of your tests ? DO you have a Mg level>

Could it be that you were precipitating CA before with the kalkwasser - and now that you are using soda ash both yoru Ca and Alk have risen?

EDIT - some of the other replies weren't up as I was writing this - I think it was the addition of phosguard and the water change - should not be from changing Kalkwasser to sodium carbonate. Kalkwasser also increases alkalinity BTW

ScottR · May 24, 2019

Dom said:
Chin up... many of us have been here.

I've had this happen to me; the tank is thriving, but you start to look for ways to make it even better. In the process, you make changes that have the opposite effect.

I've learned never fix what isn't broken in this hobby.

I've been using IO Reef Crystals for over 10 years without issue. I once switched to Red Sea Coral Pro for a few months and the decline was noticeable. I went back to IO Reef Crystals and through regular water changes only, got back on track.

When I look to boost things like calcium and magnesium, I blend in some Red Sea Pro with my IO Reef Crystal mix.

I thought I was the only person mixing in coral pro with my salt to up Ca, Mg and alk. I rarely do it but I do. ;Hilarious

Blackice615 · May 24, 2019

@MnFish1 it must have been auto correct. I switched from Kalk to A&H. I used BRS Calcium to bring it up to 480 from 360. I've always used phosguard in my cannister filter in a sock, however recently switched to having it in a reactor. The tank started going downhill approximately two weeks before running a reactor instead.

Mg is normally steady as long as the tank has been up between 1400-1500. Currently it is at 1420.

My test kitsch are new as I ordered new sets as of last month using salifert and red sea.

Blackice615 · May 24, 2019

@ScottR it's pretty common actually. I learned a number of people do it as some feel the trace levels can be high in pro salt, especially the alk.

I liked the salt as it was 100% consistent whereas IO has a history of levels being off

MnFish1 · May 24, 2019

Brew12 said:
+1 on this. Although I do suspect that it may be contributing to your coral issues.

Sodium Carbonate is one of the parts of 2-part dosing. Kalkwasser increases both calcium and alkalinity. It will also boost pH will help the tank.

I would do as large a water change as possible and go back to Kalkwasser.

I'm a big fan of matching your salt to your tank parameters. I used to use Reef Crystals but the parameters were too high and I'd get a spike every water change. Regular IO worked better for me. It is now more convenient for me to use Redsea blue bucket and that almost exactly matches my target parameters at 1.026 salinity.

Good luck!

Have you noticed that your tank parameters vary from your salt parameters? I know there are a couple brands of salt with very high alkalinity - such that when you do a water change - you're adding alkalinity/Ca, etc - without 'having to dose'. (I don't use those

)...

I use brightwell - which mixes to approx what your tank 'should' be at if well maintained - and its consistent - so I never thought of this...

pirate2876 · May 24, 2019

Where are you getting your fresh water from? Make sure all the cartridges are not expended, and make sure you connected everything correctly on the RODI. Does your city use chloramine in the tap? You can usually get a water report from you cities website. I ran into similar issues a while back that I was able to overcome with the addition of more chloramine cartridges in my RODI. I also hadnt changed the membrane in 2yrs.

Just my anecdotal experience with my tank about 4-6 mths ago:

Blackice615 · May 24, 2019

My salt and tank parameters are pretty spot on generally hence why i haven't had the need to test the salt. This was my second bag of IO since I switched back and will be testing the levels when I do a WC tonite. My TDS on my 5 stage unit is 0 and replaced all the cartridges within the past four months. I only make up approximately 60 gallons a month. 30 for top off 20-30 for WC

Blackice615 · Jun 8, 2019

Tank update as of today. Corals have come back with the exception of color. I've found a number of the lentid snails that were also a contributing factor I'm sure. I've removed all that I've found over the past few weeks. Thank you all for the encouragement and advice to get the tank back on track.