Losing some sps - lps are great

Aparker2005 · Aug 9, 2022

Hey everyone. Pretty sure I sabotaged our sps corals due to overfeeding our recently acquired copperband.

Our 125 has been doing wonderful since we upgraded it combining our previous 75 and 40 gallon tanks. The last 2 to 3 weeks however, we've lost coral left and right, and a lot of my wife's favorites at that (rainbow Monti, green Monti, acros).

They were previously growing like crazy until we got the copperband and I was feeding way too much to try to get it eating different frozen foods. Our nitrates and phosphates have went through the roof after testing.

So, this is probably gonna make people shake their heads, but I just noticed the test kit I use the most due to ease (API) is 1 and 2 months expired.... So likely these aren't even accurate numbers?

Here's what I just tested (phosphate and calcium being expired)

Salinity: 1.026
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40-80
Ph - 7.4
Calcium: 380
Kh: 8 - 143.2
Phos : 1-2

Hanna tests show Phosphate at 2.5, and Alk at 173.

I have Hanna checkers as well, but they're kind of a pain to use so I usually skip from laziness.

Water changes are roughly 15% weekly. Our calcium, nitrate, and phosphate are the things that changed the most since my last test.

Last test, nitrates were 20, calcium was 420, and phosphate was 0.5.

Filters are 3x Seachem Tidal filters with stock mechanical pad, a nitrate/phosphate pad I just put in Sunday, Seachem matrix, and Chemipure blue.

Our lps are doing great and growing. Some sps are still hanging on.

Planning on doing a bigger water change tomorrow....

Any ideas on what I should do? We live nowhere near a fish store, so supplies usually have to be ordered. Pics of affected corals and entire tank below.

vsolovyev · Aug 9, 2022

I would dump the API test kits, I found them to be wildly in-accurate and in-consistent… and we know that is one of the most important things for SPS. If you have Hanna’s, re check your parameters and see where your numbers really are at. This is going to be most peoples first peice of advice for you.

Aparker2005 · Aug 9, 2022

Just did the Alk test with the Hanna checker and it came to 173

vsolovyev · Aug 9, 2022

How often do you test? Has it been consistently around 173?
Also, do you dose anything for Alk/Calcium consumption?

vetteguy53081 · Aug 9, 2022

Ypu likely have false readings with the API kits and to confirm, take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use api kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours
Hanna and salifert kits are much more reliable.
For the tissue loss, some possible causes are :
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays

Aparker2005 · Aug 9, 2022

And now with the Hanna phosphate test, it's giving me a 2.5 reading

Aparker2005 · Aug 9, 2022

vsolovyev said:
How often do you test? Has it been consistently around 173?
Also, do you dose anything for Alk/Calcium consumption?

Don't dose anything for it. I usually test once a month or so the last 6 months since things were going great. Calcium was pretty consistent around 420 then.

Aparker2005 · Aug 9, 2022

So keep doing weekly water changes and tests for now? Our 20 gallon (which I have never overfed) is doing great.

Sps and lps both doing great there. Only thing we've lost since we've had it are some firework polyps and a frag of galaxea.

Jeffcb · Aug 9, 2022

vetteguy53081 said:
Ypu likely have false readings with the API kits and to confirm, take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use api kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours
Hanna and salifert kits are much more reliable.
For the tissue loss, some possible causes are :
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays

Don't want to Hi jack your thread but Just curious, I am losing some Monti's in my fowlr tank. The only thing different is a added a couple of small bags of sand. Pink Figi. Since then they are bleaching. Adding sand can do that?

vsolovyev · Aug 9, 2022

Yes, consistency is key with all coral and ecspecially SPS, if your Alk and calcium is fluctuating a lot your SPS definitely won’t like that and will cause problems. Some types of LPS and most softies are a lot more forgiving but most of the time SPS is going to be ticked off. I test my SPS tank daily for ALK consumption. If your to the point to where you need to dose, only testing will tell you that. Just remember 3 most important things for SPS growth is flow, lighting and consistency. Testing daily isn’t necessary it’s just what I choose to do, but I would recommend at least once a week.

vsolovyev · Aug 9, 2022

Jeffcb said:
Don't want to Hi jack your thread but Just curious, I am losing some Monti's in my fowlr tank. The only thing different is a added a couple of small bags of sand. Pink Figi. Since then they are bleaching. Adding sand can do that?

Was this live sand that you added by chance?

Aparker2005 · Aug 9, 2022

vsolovyev said:
Yes, consistency is key with all coral and ecspecially SPS, if your Alk and calcium is fluctuating a lot your SPS definitely won’t like that and will cause problems. Some types of LPS and most softies are a lot more forgiving but most of the time SPS is going to be ticked off. I test my SPS tank daily for ALK consumption. If your to the point to where you need to dose, only testing will tell you that. Just remember 3 most important things for SPS growth is flow, lighting and consistency. Testing daily isn’t necessary it’s just what I choose to do, but I would recommend at least once a week.

Well we have good flow and lights. I wonder where the sudden drop in calcium came from?

And weekly water changes of 15% or so... Is that too much really or should every other week with top offs be better?

I feed a mixture of flakes, pellets, and frozen twice a day. Nitrates and phosphates definitely came from trying to feed this copperband when we first got it.

vsolovyev · Aug 9, 2022

Your drop in calcium is probably from something consuming it, and not only corals consume calcium. Snail shells, algaes (like coralline) and pretty much anything calcium based consumes it. So your drop in calcium could be from consumption. WC are great for nutrient export, I also do 15% weekly. Hope that helps, best of luck to you!

Aparker2005 · Aug 9, 2022

The copperband is only eating bloodworms so I've at least stopped feeding so many different times and options to it. Hopefully with some water changes things get back down to normal

vsolovyev · Aug 9, 2022

I forgot to ask what is your magnesium levels at? A tell tale sign of low magnesium is drop in calcium

Aparker2005 · Aug 9, 2022

I don't even have a magnesium test to be honest. I've meant to get one and keep forgetting

vsolovyev said:
I forgot to ask what is your magnesium levels at? A tell tale sign of low magnesium is drop in calcium

vsolovyev · Aug 9, 2022

That might be your problem right there. Low magnesium.

Bfragale · Aug 9, 2022

I think you need to get your nitrates and phosphates in check, get good test kits, get parameters in check- focus on Stability and things should turn around.

the photos showing corals dying from the base up or middle out on the encrusting corals is what I’m noticing almost 100% of the time when phosphates are too high causing coral decline and death.

If your plan on keeping sps long term, you should be testing the major parameters at least weekly: alk cal mag no3 po4

Hanna for alk and phosphate, and/or Salifert for the rest or all 4 Salifert are a great choice.

also stability with the rest: temp, salinity and PH.

personally I would either increase frequency or amount of water changes until you get nutrients to acceptable levels. Reducing feeding will help a lot too. Remember what goes in must come out. So with out a refugium or even skimmer - you will be relying mainly on water changes for nutrient export. So the amount and frequency will depend on your test results.

Calcium and magnesium and alkalinity work weird together. Having one or two out of wack tends to throw the others out of wack as well. I know there’s a smart and scientific reason why- I couldn’t tell you that- but I will stress the importance of these all three being tested and maintained within acceptable parameters.

personally I feel the problem your having is due to all these parameters being out of whack.

this may help:
Ideal parameters:
Temp 77-78
Ph 7.8-8.3+
salinity 1.025-1.026
Alk 7-11 dkh (8.5 is my choice)
Calcium 420
Mag 1350
No3 1-5ppm
Po4. .01-.05

no3 and po4: there’s a lot of talk about the red field ratio. These two numbers may be higher or lower but should be in proper balance. I think it’s roughly 11-1. But it’s a fun rabbit hole to research redfeild ratio regarding nitrates and phosphates.

Sorry to ramble- hope you find this useful.

HAPPY REEFING!