Losing SPS! Help!

[Flippers4pups]

So - when I have seen this - its - one thing dies - releases 'chemicals' - or ammonia. damages another thing - which releases chemicals and or ammonia, etc etc etc etc. Get rid of all of the dying things - frag them - re-glue them. There is a lot to say for chemical warfare in a tank. Do you run carbon? Have you checked ammonia. My rule (hard learned) once things start dying - cut off the dying parts and take them out - hope for. the best for the frags. Keeping things in there slowly dying seems not to be a good idea...

Doesn’t sound like RTN. Could be wrong based on the OP description.

White band disease (RTN) typically starts out as a small section that loses color and then tissue death. Rest of the coral still has color. Progresses till surrounding tissue dies.

Tip burn is usually from alkalinity swing.

 

[AaronRetka]

So - when I have seen this - its - one thing dies - releases 'chemicals' - or ammonia. damages another thing - which releases chemicals and or ammonia, etc etc etc etc. Get rid of all of the dying things - frag them - re-glue them. There is a lot to say for chemical warfare in a tank. Do you run carbon? Have you checked ammonia. My rule (hard learned) once things start dying - cut off the dying parts and take them out - hope for. the best for the frags. Keeping things in there slowly dying seems not to be a good idea...

Yes, I do run carbon. Although I took it offline for a week or so when things really started going south, it's running again. And yeah, getting the dying stuff out of the tank does seem like the best solution. I guess I was hoping for a miraculous bounce-back once I found the mythical silver bullet that cured my ails.

 

[AaronRetka]

As the above poster said - nutrients can be an issue - from what did you lower your PO4 with GFO? Where were you're nitrates - and why did you use to dose them? Have you checked your RODI water

PO4 at its very highest was 0.1, down to 0.02 over that six-week span. Nitrates at their lowest were about 1.5, and I dosed to raise 'em when this stuff began, over fear of low nutrients.

I haven't checked RODI, no. Filters got changed relatively recently, though, and contaminants would have shown up on ICP test, no?

EDIT: Had the lower PO4 value at 0.2, not 0.02.

 

[AaronRetka]

So, in my search for variables here: This all started around the time things got cool here in Colorado, and I closed the window to the room. When I remembered that was the case, I went, "Aha, it's high environmental CO2!" and tested pH ... which came in normal. The only other thing I can think of is that I turned on my furnace around the same time, which is in the same room, albeit behind a door. Could there be some correlation there? Unreacted natural gas, in small enough amounts to, you know, not kill my family, but affect the tank?

 

[Flippers4pups]

So, in my search for variables here: This all started around the time things got cool here in Colorado, and I closed the window to the room. When I remembered that was the case, I went, "Aha, it's high environmental CO2!" and tested pH ... which came in normal. The only other thing I can think of is that I turned on my furnace around the same time, which is in the same room, albeit behind a door. Could there be some correlation there? Unreacted natural gas, in small enough amounts to, you know, not kill my family, but affect the tank?

What I think is the problem is nutrient swing. Low N03 and then bringing it up. P04 being high and N03 low isn't good.

Any water pramameter swing is stressful.

 

[AaronRetka]

What I think is the problem is nutrient swing. Low N03 and then bringing it up. P04 being high and N03 low isn't good.

Any water pramameter swing is stressful.

If that's the case, what would be your advice going forward? Nutrients have been stable at their current level for a few weeks now, and things don't seem to get better—on the contrary, stuff that was doing great two days ago is now crapping out. Just frag off dying stuff, keep parameters at current levels, and hope things improve?

 

[marlinmon]

PO4 at its very highest was 0.1, down to 0.02 over that six-week span. Nitrates at their lowest were about 1.5, and I dosed to raise 'em when this stuff began, over fear of low nutrients.

I haven't checked RODI, no. Filters got changed relatively recently, though, and contaminants would have shown up on ICP test, no?

EDIT: Had the lower PO4 value at 0.2, not 0.02.

What are you dosing to raise Nitrates?

 

[AaronRetka]

The Spectracide potassium nitrate stump remover stuff. Did three doses over two weeks to raise NO3 about 2.5 ppm, after this whole thing began.

 

[marlinmon]

The Spectracide potassium nitrate stump remover stuff. Did three doses over two weeks to raise NO3 about 2.5 ppm, after this whole thing began.

I'd stop using that now. Contains heavy metals and trash in trace amounts that's no good for SPS. Try using a food grade or reagent grade potassium nitrate salt.

 

[AaronRetka]

I haven't used it beyond those initial doses, but I'll chuck what I've got left.

 

[Flippers4pups]

If that's the case, what would be your advice going forward? Nutrients have been stable at their current level for a few weeks now, and things don't seem to get better—on the contrary, stuff that was doing great two days ago is now crapping out. Just frag off dying stuff, keep parameters at current levels, and hope things improve?

Needs to be stable for months, not weeks. I mean that respectfully.

When your SPS is paling and your nutrients are N03 at 5-10ppm and P04 at trace around 0.02, reduce your light intensity and photo period.

I would reduce your photo period to 8 to 9 hours total anyway. The zooxanthellae with in the coral tissue need down time. 12 hours may put them into photo inhibition. (Stress)

All of this said without knowing what the condition of the coral was when you bought it. If stressed from the get go, tissue is thin and zooxanthellae densities are as well. Zooxanthellae can act like sunscreen for the surrounding tissue, but has limits.

More often than not if a coral is browning it's receiving not enough light and or too much nutrients. And possibly low alkalinity.

If a coral is paling it's not got enough nutrients, too much light.....

When introducing SPS frags to your system after dipping, always start out at the sand bed for a few days and observe. Look okay, move up a little for a few days, repeat till they are where you want them. Light acclimation.

Let your system get stable for a few months before attempting adding them again and good luck!

 

[Flippers4pups]

I'd stop using that now. Contains heavy metals and trash in trace amounts that's no good for SPS. Try using a food grade or reagent grade potassium nitrate salt.

I've used it before with no I'll effects. Technical data sheet from spectracide states 100% potassium nitrate. Now anything is possible and bad batches can and do happen, even with lab grade chemicals.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I currently run around 20-40ppm N03 and P04 at 0.1.

If you don't want to dose potassium nitrate, and that's okay, try sodium nitrate or run your skimmer only at night and feed a little more.

 

[AaronRetka]

Hey, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to chime in with their help. It means a lot when I'm tearing my hair out over this, sincerely. Thank you!

That said, re: this ...

I would reduce your photo period to 8 to 9 hours total anyway. The zooxanthellae with in the coral tissue need down time. 12 hours may put them into photo inhibition. (Stress)

Good advice, and would you lower intensity and photo period gradually? If so, over what length of time?

 

[marlinmon]

I've used it before with no I'll effects. Technical data sheet from spectracide states 100% potassium nitrate. Now anything is possible and bad batches can and do happen, even with lab grade chemicals.

Nothing is ever 100%. Not even reagent or usp grade is 100%. There's unreacted material and always trace components. Your tap water is 100% water... plus trace amounts of lead, arsenic, etc. The CAS for Spectracide is a generic one for potassium nitrate. I wouldn't believe that SDS for one second.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Hey, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to chime in with their help. It means a lot when I'm tearing my hair out over this, sincerely. Thank you!

That said, re: this ...


Good advice, and would you lower intensity and photo period gradually? If so, over what length of time?

If they are pale now, right away all at once.

Hang there. Best of luck! Keep us posted.

 

[AaronRetka]

If they are pale now, right away all at once.

Hang there. Best of luck! Keep us posted.

Will do, and thanks again!

 

[Flippers4pups]

Nothing is ever 100%. Not even reagent or usp grade is 100%. There's unreacted material and always trace components. Your tap water is 100% water... plus trace amounts of lead, arsenic, etc. The CAS for Spectracide is a generic one for potassium nitrate. I wouldn't believe that SDS for one second.

100% means no additional additives. Purity is subjective, yes.

Without a laboratory analysis of impurities, it's strictly conjecture. Respectfully.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Will do, and thanks again!

Your welcome.

 

[reeferfoxx]

The Spectracide potassium nitrate stump remover stuff. Did three doses over two weeks to raise NO3 about 2.5 ppm, after this whole thing began.

I've used spectracide stump remover for 2 years now but in conjunction with phosphate dosings. Side effect of dosing only nitrates can lower phosphates. Also, depending on how you used GFO, it could have decreased alkalinity. I think the major take away here is a lack of stability. Trying to control N and P with chemical media rather than limiting feedings.