Losing to copper power???

[mattb2989]

So after losing a few fish in 1 qt. I have a purple tang in its own qt. All was fine last night ate like a champ. Today nothing. Not even a sniff at food. Pellets, mysis, brine, nori. Not interested. This has been in copper power a little longer than the others at coming up to 3 weeks now. Also looks like white dots on it and over its eyes. Any suggestions please. Salin 1.024, 0 ammonia.

 

[Billldg]

@Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So after losing a few fish in 1 qt. I have a purple tang in its own qt. All was fine last night ate like a champ. Today nothing. Not even a sniff at food. Pellets, mysis, brine, nori. Not interested. This has been in copper power a little longer than the others at coming up to 3 weeks now. Also looks like white dots on it and over its eyes. Any suggestions please. Salin 1.024, 0 ammonia.

What is the copper power dose at?
Have you dosed this fish with praziquantel yet?
Can you post a short video? I want to get a sense of the tang's breathing rate.

Jay

 

[mattb2989]

What is the copper power dose at?
Have you dosed this fish with praziquantel yet?
Can you post a short video? I want to get a sense of the tang's breathing rate.

Jay

Hi mate. Wont let me attach a vid. Copper power is at 2.5. Same as my other qt. I havnt done prazi yet. But on the others that have died. Ive put in a tub of fw and no signs of flukes. He is breathing faster than normal but i wouldn't call it rapid

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi mate. Wont let me attach a vid. Copper power is at 2.5. Same as my other qt. I havnt done prazi yet. But on the others that have died. Ive put in a tub of fw and no signs of flukes. He is breathing faster than normal but i wouldn't call it rapid

O.K., good. I've just had a lot of people recently using low dose copper power and that just doesn't work. 2 to 2.5 is a full dose.

After a 5 minute FW dip, if the fish doesn't start breathing better after a day or so, it likely isn't flukes. Just as a side note - there is really only one species of fluke that you can see in a dip without a microscope - Neobenedenia, and that isn't a gill fluke. Gill flukes are tiny and even with a microscope, they are tough to see in a dip (they contort up into little balls of snot).

Those spots on the eyes are bugging me - can't say what they are, but definitely something. Without copper, I'd say ich. Could also be flukes, when did you give this fish the dip?

Jay

 

[mattb2989]

O.K., good. I've just had a lot of people recently using low dose copper power and that just doesn't work. 2 to 2.5 is a full dose.

After a 5 minute FW dip, if the fish doesn't start breathing better after a day or so, it likely isn't flukes. Just as a side note - there is really only one species of fluke that you can see in a dip without a microscope - Neobenedenia, and that isn't a gill fluke. Gill flukes are tiny and even with a microscope, they are tough to see in a dip (they contort up into little balls of snot).

Those spots on the eyes are bugging me - can't say what they are, but definitely something. Without copper, I'd say ich. Could also be flukes, when did you give this fish the dip?

Jay

Hi jay. Earlier on today. Copper as per both my qt havnt dropped any lower than 2.45ppm and no higher than 2.55ppm so i know my dosing is spot on. The spots on the eyes continue onto the back of the fish also. But after 2.5 weeks at 2.5ppm it should be clean?

 

[mattb2989]

@Jay Hemdal woke up this morning and the purple tang has died. So im going to close that qt down and disinfect. Other qt still have the fox face yellow tang that isnt looking great and the 2 clowns. Have no idea whats causing these rapid deaths.

 

[CayeCaulker]

Wow this is awful. How did it all start.

 

[mattb2989]

Wow this is awful. How did it all start.

I had an original tank wipe out so started doing it all by the book. Qt with copper power slowly rasing levels to 1.5ppm. Have 2 qt going. In 1 had a yellow tang foxface flame angel and 2 clowns. The other had a purple tang. Doing 50% wc daily. Both tanks are roma 125s. Havnt seen any ammonia and no aggression. Started by losing the flame angel. This week. Now lost the purple. And the yellow tang is going to die today. Starting to lose heart. The foxface and clowns are still fully eating

 

[mattb2989]

@Jay Hemdal this is the purple in a tub of fw after death

 

[CayeCaulker]

So this live stock is new and you have them dying in your QT tank setup?

 

[mattb2989]

So this live stock is new and you have them dying in your QT tank setup?

Yes. Had them for a week to settle and make sure eating before ramping up cu. Salinity has stayed stable. No ammonia. Has to be the copper power

 

[Spare time]

I wonder if paraguard might be better since you had brook.

 

[mattb2989]

I wonder if paraguard might be better since you had brook.

Was diagnosed at ich. Not brook?

 

[Ultra Aquatics]

Yes. Had them for a week to settle and make sure eating before ramping up cu. Salinity has stayed stable. No ammonia. Has to be the copper power

You had copper at 1.5 or 2.5? I stopped slowly ramping it and go straight to 2.5.

 

[mattb2989]

You had copper at 1.5 or 2.5? I stopped slowly ramping it and go straight to 2.5.

2.5 its been there 14 days on the yellow tang qt. And 18 days on the purple qt

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

2.5 its been there 14 days on the yellow tang qt. And 18 days on the purple qt

Here is where a microscope would have been REALLY helpful. A quick scrape of the tang's skin would have told you what you needed to know - what the heck those spots are. You might not have been able to tell exactly what they were, but you could rule some things out.

From the small spots, the rapid breathing and the quick death, Amyloodinium (velvet) would be the presumptive diagnosis. However, you had a tightly controlled, long term copper treatment. I hear "copper resistant parasites" a lot, but usually, those can be traced back to an improper treatment regimen.

What if this IS Brooklynella? Copper won't affect that. I mostly see Brook on clownfish, but presumably other fish can get it. Formalin is the best med for that.


Jay

 

[mattb2989]

Here is where a microscope would have been REALLY helpful. A quick scrape of the tang's skin would have told you what you needed to know - what the heck those spots are. You might not have been able to tell exactly what they were, but you could rule some things out.

From the small spots, the rapid breathing and the quick death, Amyloodinium (velvet) would be the presumptive diagnosis. However, you had a tightly controlled, long term copper treatment. I hear "copper resistant parasites" a lot, but usually, those can be traced back to an improper treatment regimen.

What if this IS Brooklynella? Copper won't affect that. I mostly see Brook on clownfish, but presumably other fish can get it. Formalin is the best med for that.


Jay

Clownfish and foxface are clean. Yellow tang just died and that looked clean. Any other suggestions @Jay Hemdal

 

[Ultra Aquatics]

I’m far from the expert that Jay is but I would suspect velvet based on the purple tang pics and the losses. How are you testing copper? Hannah or Api?

 

[mattb2989]

I’m far from the expert that Jay is but I would suspect velvet based on the purple tang pics and the losses. How are you testing copper? Hannah or Api?

Hanna checker pal.