Lost an anthia in QT after 3 days

foxt · May 14, 2017

Found this guy floating in the tank yesterday morning, and am wondering what, if anything, I can learn by looking at the corpse?

This was one of four female resplendent anthias and a midas blenny that came in from Liveaquaria last week. I had them in QT, letting them settle in and show me that they are eating before starting CP or copper. My plan was to start treatment today, but this death is giving me pause. The other fish are all fine, eating well, showing no signs of anything wrong at this point. This one looked fine as well, but I noticed the red blotches and wonder if that is a telltale sign of anything? The fish was floating in the tank for a max of 8 hours (was alive when I went to bed, was dead when I woke up).

melypr1985 · May 14, 2017

Possibly a gram negative bacterial infection or even uronema. It's not easy to tell from death pictures because things tend to settle oddly and coloration starts getting red and blotchy after death even if there wasn't an infection that killed them. Look very closely at the remaining anthias to be sure there are no red or white patches on their bodies (even very small).

sc50964 · May 14, 2017

Looks like Septicemia was the cause. Need to use antibiotics like furan2 and kanaplex.

Abhishek · May 14, 2017

I agree !!! I have lost many fishes in QT due to newly setup QT without a proper biological population. Now a days, I always use furan2 for gram negative bacteria in QT . Always !!
Was this QT newly setup or running for a while ?

Regards,
Abhishek

Paul B · May 14, 2017

Very hard to tell after being dead so long. But I don't think it was a bacterial infection because his eyes appear clear and usually the eyes fog up first.

I have 5 of those, very beautiful fish.

foxt · May 14, 2017

Thanks for all of the replies.

This was a newly set up QT, seeded with some live rock from my sump in the tank, and some seeded ceramic media in the HOB.

Daily tests for ammonia have shown zero.

The other fish all look fine, I can not see any spots or discoloration on them at all. They are eating well, taking mysis and flake.

My plan was to prophylactically treat with CP, but now I am thinking I might just wait and watch to see if anything else develops. Is there anything bad that could happen if I do proceed with CP at this point? If it is bacterial, will I have time to react after signs show up, or should I not wait and be dosing Furan2 now?

melypr1985 · May 14, 2017

I think I would go ahead and dose the furan2. Mainly because if it WAS bacterial then it moved very quickly from onset to death.

foxt · May 21, 2017

It's been a week since I dosed with Furan-2 (followed the directions on the box), and up until now, the four remaining fish (3 replendents and a midas blenny) have been doing ok. Right about the time I lost one of the replendents, another resplendent had white stringy poop, so I started mixing metro in with the frozen mysis and pellets I have been feeding. I also decided to run prazi (just started the second dose today). That seems to have worked on the worms and I planned to continue feeding metro for a total of ten days (three more to go as of today).

However, this afternoon, I discovered one of the surviving resplendents laying on the bottom of the tank. The fish is upright, breathing slowly, and appears to have it's nighttime coloration (even though this was midday, with lights on). This was the pic I snapped this afternoon:

In the pic, it looks like there are small ich-like spots on the fish, but that seems like junk it has picked up by laying on the bottom of the tank. If I make the fish move, the stuff just falls off. But the blotchy color is weird - the others all have their normal day coloration.

What could cause this, any ideas?

fragit · May 21, 2017

Not sure if anybody said this or not yet, but CP will kill Anthias! I learned the hard way. @melypr1985 created a nice spreadsheet that can be found in the fish diseases forum. Look over it before you dose any medication!

foxt · May 21, 2017

Yes, thanks for that. I did eventually find the info in a couple of places, so I skipped the CP. Since I lost that first fish, all I have done is dose the Furan-2, mix metro in food for 7 days so far, and run the first course of prazi. I decided to wait and see before I dosed copper. Now, I don't know what, if anything, I should do about this one fish that is lethargic. When they get that way, do they also lose coloration? Might that be a delayed reaction to either the metro feeding or the prazi dose?

foxt · May 22, 2017

This morning, the lights have been on for several hours, and the anthia's coloration is back to normal. But, it's still just sitting on the bottom, breathing slowly. Eyes are clear, no discernable external evidence of anything, just lethargic behavior at this point. Could this be a reaction to the second dose of prazi I started yesterday? Wait it out? I dangled some frozen mysis in front of it, no interest. I also tried some live black worms, no interest. Just sits there ...

foxt · May 22, 2017

I've noticed that the anthia's dorsal fin appears to have either some rot, or some picking going on. This just happened during the day today, day 2 of second round of prazi. I've been checking in on the QT regularly oday, and I have not see any of the other fish picking on her. I did not get a picture, but I think she may also have a little bit of damage to her tail as well. Does this mean she's got a bacterial problem? Or are the others picking on her? I could treat with meds, or I could put a piece of eggcrate in the QT to isolate her.

Eyes are clear, no other outward signs of anything (the other discoloration you see behind her eye is dirt on the glass - sorry! You can also see that her coloration is starting to revert back now to nocturnal, although the lights are on. She had full color up until an hour or so ago. Not eating, not moving, not breathing heavy. Just sits there in the corner, or sometimes moves to the piece of live rock I seeded the tank with and hides there.

ngoodermuth · May 22, 2017

The fin looks like it was probably nipped, but it's possible it could be bacterial. I'd keep an eye on it for now, and try to get her eating. Anthias like smaller foods, maybe try something like cyclops or nutrimar ova. Or even baby brine shrimp.

foxt · May 22, 2017

Ok, thanks.

foxt · May 22, 2017

I decided to add an air stone, since I dosed prazi, thinking that I would at least eliminate that as an issue. The fish hasn't been breathing heavily, so I don't think this will help, but it can't hurt. I also decided to put her in a social acclimation box in the QT. If she is getting picked on because she is sick or an easy target, this will at least put a stop to that. Plus if the fins continue to get worse I'll be able to rule out the other fish as the cause. This is her second night in this condition, also the second night of the second course of prazi - I can't help but wonder if those are not coincidences.

foxt · May 23, 2017

The anthia is taking blackworms inside the social acclimation box this morning, and her coloration is normal. She still seems to be slow, but the fact that she is restarting to eat is a positive sign. No further signs of fin issues, looks just like she did yesterday. Is it possible that her behavior was due to bullying from the other females? I thought females all get along? Could one of them (or this particular fish) be changing to male, and that is causing the issue? Or are there other things I should look for? There are plenty of hiding places for all of the 5 female resplendents and one midas blenny in this 20 long QT - I thought this would be a big enough tank for all of them for QT, but maybe I am wrong?

Areseebee · May 23, 2017

All anthias bully each other to set up a continuous hierarchy.

foxt · May 23, 2017

Thanks for the response. She's got about two more weeks to go in QT, so I will keep her in the acclimation box for a while and let her get back on her feet. The group of anthias are going into a 220g, so they'll all have much more room to work things out.

Given that her fins were nipped and she is in a QT at the moment, should I dose with kanaplex to get ahead of any infection, or just wait and see?

Areseebee · May 23, 2017

I would wait for an expert to chime in on that one, but my instinct is that fin damage will take care of itself without getting infected, but I'm a neophyte in all this.