Lost My Imperator tonight

[Feet4Fish]

About 4 weeks ago I noticed what I believed to be Crypt and started Copper Power immediately. Ran it consistently at at 2.25 ppm. The Imperator seemed to be doing ok. He was looking better and eating very well. About three days ago tings changed for the worse. He now had a what I perceived as a classic Velvet appearance. Transferred him to a new treatment tank with matched salinity, temp and pH which was preposed with CP at 50mg/gallon. He lost desire to eat and increased lethargy. Tonight he passed. By training I am a podiatrist and by looks and smell can tell you what the likely pathogen is in an infected diabetic foot but don't have that expertise with my aquatic pets. So, I know progress pictures would probably be more helpful, but from this post-mortem pic can anyone discern pathology(gies)? The hemorrhagic areas toward the [osterior part of his body only emerged today. Welcome everyone's input as I want to be better educated. If @HotRocks, @4FordFamily, @Humblefish could give their take I would appreciate it as well.

 

[Flippers4pups]

@Big G, does this look like black ich?

 

[Flippers4pups]

@Feet4Fish, it's late and those guys may be in bed, so be patient.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Out of curiosity, if it was quick-killing-Velvet, how do you suspect it got into your system? A recent new addition?

 

[Feet4Fish]

Completely understand and there is not time element to this. I will most appreciate those better educate than I to share the impressions and experiences. I sincerely hate losing a fish and I had had this guy for about two years. Got him as a juvenile. I am working on a large system build right now and my goal is to make this a system designed first and foremost with fish in mind,. I want to be a system where they can thrive and outlive their ocean life expectancy.

@Feet4Fish, it's late and those guys may be in bed, so be patient.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[Feet4Fish]

I had purchased another fish from an LFS. Quarantined that fish per my typical protocol - Looked fine. Transferred him into the conditioning tank where the imperator resided. That fish dies four days after that move and the imperator started his path,

Out of curiosity, if it was quick-killing-Velvet, how do you suspect it got into your system? A recent new addition?

 

[Flippers4pups]

Completely understand and there is not time element to this. I will most appreciate those better educate than I to share the impressions and experiences. I sincerely hate losing a fish and I had had this guy for about two years. Got him as a juvenile. I am working on a large system build right now and my goal is to make this a system designed first and foremost with fish in mind,. I want to be a system where they can thrive and outlive their ocean life expectancy.

Completely understood.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Man, that is absolutely terrible. I have a transitioning juvenile now — two years down the road like yours was, and I think I would cry real tears. Your fish was beautiful; I know you won’t give up.

 

[Feet4Fish]

They are stunning fish and it really did hurt. Had some extra closeness with the fish as I cared for fun from about three inches to the 8 or so he became. Photographed every stage of his transition. I am planning a handful of large angels in this new build which he was to be part of. I will likely seek another one but we’ll see. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[Zionas]

I am sorry for your loss. It’s a beautiful fish you had and I can completely sympathize with your bond because it’s such a good feeling knowing that something under your care is growing. I would be devastated if the same happened in my tank.

I feel we’re very much of the same heart. I also intend to create an ecosystem where my fish can live longer than their ocean lifespans (predation, etc.). I’m quite ambitious in this regard as well, expecting at least a fair number of my fish to hit the 10-year mark and beyond.

I don’t know what could have introduced velvet / maybe black ich to your system as I feel your system’s quite well-established unless there’s been a new addition recently.

I’m also an angel lover like you are (though my tank can only fit a Centropyge at most) but, I have to say hearing about their susceptibility to disease compared to the other species on my planned stocking list (Marine Betta, Ocellaris Clowns, PJ Cardinals, Basslets, Flame Hawk and damsels) is seriously making me reconsider getting an angel until I have a bit more experience and possibly in my second, larger setup in the future.

You have my condolences as a fellow reefer.

 

[lagatbezan]

Sorry for the loss
How long did you have him in copper and how were you testing? At 2.25 it “should” have treated for both velvet and ich.
Any trace of ammonia?

 

[Feet4Fish]

Angel was in copper for 23 days before switch to CP. levels monitored with Hanna Checker. No ammonia. He was in a system that had been up for almost 2 years, plus I regularly checked ammonia once started meds. Thought I had all bases covered. Thanks for you sentiment.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Sorry about your loss, With such a great caring person to be so concerned I’m sure he had a happy and special time with you.

 

[4FordFamily]

Post-mortem most fish look as if they have infections but this one really screams it to me. The timeline, treatment, symptoms, appearance — you didn’t do anything wrong, it doesn’t sound like. Unfortunately in treating a fish in copper or CP, you necessarily weaken their immune system. So the insertion points of the parasites can become infected. A fish that’s been damaged in the gills and otherwise by parasites, which now has an even weaker immune state can lead to this, somewhat often.

I am dealing with an idol that’s been through two failed QT protocols, and I figured out the culprit — the hose that fills the QT tank drains to the same place so when I put it in the “Clean” QT transfer tank, it’s infected everything. Should be common sense but I missed it. So far she’s not showing infection but it wouldn’t surprise me. I have spectrogram on hand for that purpose, though many other mixtures will work. CP will be my next attempt for this batch, my copper was at 2.5PPM so I can’t imagine velvet getting through.

3 days after new observation tank it came roaring back and she was discolored both times. Glad I caught it early. I am very sorry for your loss

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Sorry for you loss!!

 

[Feet4Fish]

Greatly appreciate your sentiment and insight. I understand the red area on his body indicate infectious processes. That seems like a relatively late sign. Was an early sign the fading of color? He faded color probably about 5 days before passing. You provided me with valuable information. My goal in my post wasn’t to tell everyone about my fish but more importantly to learn what happened so I can be better prepared. thanks!

Post-mortem most fish look as if they have infections but this one really screams it to me. The timeline, treatment, symptoms, appearance — you didn’t do anything wrong, it doesn’t sound like. Unfortunately in treating a fish in copper or CP, you necessarily weaken their immune system. So the insertion points of the parasites can become infected. A fish that’s been damaged in the gills and otherwise by parasites, which now has an even weaker immune state can lead to this, somewhat often.

I am dealing with an idol that’s been through two failed QT protocols, and I figured out the culprit — the hose that fills the QT tank drains to the same place so when I put it in the “Clean” QT transfer tank, it’s infected everything. Should be common sense but I missed it. So far she’s not showing infection but it wouldn’t surprise me. I have spectrogram on hand for that purpose, though many other mixtures will work. CP will be my next attempt for this batch, my copper was at 2.5PPM so I can’t imagine velvet getting through.

3 days after new observation tank it came roaring back and she was discolored both times. Glad I caught it early. I am very sorry for your loss