Lost on keeping ph up

[Eckolancer]

since switching to a cal reactor almost 8 months ago I have been having issues with my ph dropping hard at night. My lights shut off at 8pm. Once light go off ph starts to drop like a rock. Goes from about 8pm down to 7.70ish. Ph starts to rise again around 7am. Could be room light maybe even sun light that kinda enters the room. Lights don't turn on till 11am. My reactor ph does the opposite as I have it **** off if ph drops below 7.90. About a month ago I added a c02 scrubber with soda lime. I'm seriously lost on this ph issue right now. Any advise how to raise it?

 

[Chris Adams]

IF you have a sump do you have chaeto? That can assist with PH drop at night.

For me Kalk is what helps me maintain reasonable levels.

Also when is last time you cleaned and calibrated the probe?

 

[Eckolancer]

I do have a sump no lights on in sump as I run bio-pellets. Kalk does help but raises my alk higher then I like it to be. Currently I run alk at 9dkh 420 for cal and 1300 for mag. The probes have been calibrated about 3 months ago. They are the more expensive ones and less then a year old.

 

[Chris Adams]

Are you able to try to run airline from skimmer outside? Guess I assume you have a skimmer.
I also added co2 scrubber last week but be danged if anything helps except the kalk.
Thought for sure the scrubber was the answer

I do not run biopelets so hopefully someone else will chime in with suggestions

My PH range is 7.9 to 8.2
1280
9.9
435

Will be following along as PH topics are always interesting. I would also be concerned about the low end

 

[Eckolancer]

I run the scrubber right into the skimmer, but don't really have a way to get airline outside other then drilling hole in the wall. If I lived alone I would but wife says not happening.

 

[scardall]

Idea: From this discussion you have an O2 deficiency. How about opening the house for a few hours so fresh air can get in. When you keep the house closed up for a long time this can happen.

 

[cginter]

+1 on O2 deficiency. I've been having the same thing Hapen to my tank. I couldn't figure out why it would drop from 8.3 to 7.9 in a single night. My fish room doesn't have good fresh air flow so I Hooked up a fan and spliced a line in the air intake of my skimmer and boom. Problem fixed! Hope that helps.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Idea: From this discussion you have an O2 deficiency. How about opening the house for a few hours so fresh air can get in. When you keep the house closed up for a long time this can happen.

No, not an O2 deficiency, a CO2 excess. Those are not necessarily related. O2 has no impact on pH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The ways to boost pH include:

1. Bringing in more fresh (lower CO2) air to the home.
2. Bringing in more fresh (lower CO2) air to a skimmer inlet (either from outside or using a CO2 scrubber)
3. Using limewater (kalkwasser) to take up CO2 from the water.
4. Increasing photosynthesis (such as with a lit refugium) to take up CO2 from the water.
5. Not using the reactor, or using it for a smaller portion of the calcium and alk needs of the tank.

I'm not aware of any other possible options, unless the tank itslef is not in equilibrium with the home air, in which case more aeration alone may help.

This has more:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

 

[scardall]

No, not an O2 deficiency, a CO2 excess. Those are not necessarily related. O2 has no impact on pH.

It is true O2 does not bring PH down. But if there is to much CO2 there isn't enough O2. So If if you increase O2 you will not have an Excess of CO2. Right?????
"The ways to boost pH include: 1. Bringing in more fresh (lower CO2) air to the home."

Either way: I do appreciate your clarification. Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It is true O2 does not bring PH down. But if there is to much CO2 there isn't enough O2. So If if you increase O2 you will not have an Excess of CO2. Right?????
"The ways to boost pH include: 1. Bringing in more fresh (lower CO2) air to the home."

Either way: I do appreciate your clarification. Thanks

That's just not true . Both O2 and CO2 can be high or both low at the same time. There are a variety of processes that impact these two chemicals that are not simple conversion of one into the other within the tank.

For example, many aquaria have low pH all the time due to excess CO2 in their home air (or from a CaCO3/CO2 reactor), but at the peak of the light cycle they could easily have supersaturated (excess) O2 from photosynthesis.

Likewise, a tank using limewater (kalkwasser; like my aquarium) can be deficient in CO2 (pH above about 8.2) and also be deficient in O2 (at night).

 

[scardall]

That's just not true . Both O2 and CO2 can be high or both low at the same time. There are a variety of processes that impact these two chemicals that are not simple conversion of one into the other within the tank.

For example, many aquaria have low pH all the time due to excess CO2 in their home air (or from a CaCO3/CO2 reactor), but at the peak of the light cycle they could easily have supersaturated (excess) O2 from photosynthesis.

Likewise, a tank using limewater (kalkwasser; like my aquarium) can be deficient in CO2 (pH above about 8.2) and also be deficient in O2 (at night).

Overall what you are saying now makes since and there are a few things I did not consider. I was making my statements based on original circumstances as i understood them (About a month ago I added a c02 scrubber with soda lime.) My Bad, I have gained more knowledge in this area. I was not fully informed by others. Thanks

 

[that Reef Guy]

The ways to boost pH include:

1. Bringing in more fresh (lower CO2) air to the home.
2. Bringing in more fresh (lower CO2) air to a skimmer inlet (either from outside or using a CO2 scrubber)
3. Using limewater (kalkwasser) to take up CO2 from the water.
4. Increasing photosynthesis (such as with a lit refugium) to take up CO2 from the water.
5. Not using the reactor, or using it for a smaller portion of the calcium and alk needs of the tank.

I'm not aware of any other possible options, unless the tank itslef is not in equilibrium with the home air, in which case more aeration alone may help.

This has more:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

What is a CO2 Scrubber?

 

[hunter01975]

I have a homemade tube that is 4inch Diam that I fill with soda lime and is hooked the air inlet line on my skimmer keeps ph stead.

 

[Reefnjunkie]

Something to consider is
"Has this impacted your corals"
I've ran a calcium reactor for nearly 7 years and in the winter every night I can see lows in the PH at 7.65 to highs during the day of 7.95
In the summer with windows open 7.95 low 8.4 highs
My tank looks great and corals are telling me they don't care-I personally would not worry about -I've done the algae scrubber and the air line and it was a waste of money and time (for me, others may have different results)
My last Ca Rx upgrade was a dual chamber reactor so the second chamber helps with excess CO2 which also helps

IMO everything is normal and as expected when running a Calcium reactor, I wouldn't give the low PH a second thought

Just my opinion/experiance

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What is a CO2 Scrubber?

As noted above, it is a device that passes the air to a skimmer inlet over a chemical that helps remove CO2 from that air.

How well it raises pH the tank sees depends in part on how effectively it removes the CO2, and in how much other aeration the tank experiences with the high CO2 home air (like from the tank top).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Overall what you are saying now makes since and there are a few things I did not consider. I was making my statements based on original circumstances as i understood them (About a month ago I added a c02 scrubber with soda lime.) My Bad, I have gained more knowledge in this area. I was not fully informed by others. Thanks

No problem. Happy Reefing.

 

[acidtablockshifty]

i recently did this because of excessive c02, works awsome and i thought temps outside might be an issue but it doesn't seem to have too much of an affect. also much quieter.
1/2 tubing out side the air pump sits inside of a sealed plastic food container, three 1/4 inch tubes fished through the wall to the sump, two hooked to the air pump, one is just sitting in the food container but i tried hooking it up to the skimmer didn't work good, so ill probably have to get another container and smaller pump if i want to make it work, but it would still be pulling outside air from the container. i put two air stones in the sump took the ph from somewhere around 7.3 to 8.4 i don't even need to really do the skimmer line which i like because i would rather not mess with affecting it or tuning, on the outside of the house there's a barbed fitting to a bigger tee and that is stuffed with poly filter kind of making an air filter.

i havent done a day/night check of ph ill have to do that soon

i drill holes in house's like every day, so it wasnt a big deal for me, if it was on the front of the house i probally would have rethought another plan like drill the back of the house and use pipe to get closer to the tank

 

[Eckolancer]

Randy how do you feel about algae scrubbers. Im thinking about trying one but to do so I would have to take the bio pellets offline as my sump area is out of space.

 

[deerhunter06]

I have the same problem.... I took a cup of water from my tank with a ph of 7.6 took it outside and put and airstone in it and let it run for an hour ph was 8.1.... Clearly an aeration issue. So now im running the pump outside with a long 1/4inch tube into my sump with the airstone on it and it seems to be helping.