Low Nitrate Problem in Fluval Evo 13.5

[Spare time]

i feed a TON for the fish i have. and yes, i do frozen food but it is not a problem if it is sterile, i like to have nitrates low, and the coral are happy because they get all the nitrate and phos they need from the food

You are assuming that all the corals are actually eating the reef roids which may or may not be true. Its not unreasonable to assume they are handling things via ammonia. Keep in mind that how wild reefs function are not how captive reefs function

 

[MnFish1]

i feed a TON for the fish i have. and yes, i do frozen food but it is not a problem if it is sterile, i like to have nitrates low, and the coral are happy because they get all the nitrate and phos they need from the food

I guess I didn't understand your comment. Sterile, Maybe clarify?

 

[MnFish1]

Mostly yes, though with nitrate at 1-5 ppm and possibly dropping, he may want to add N.

Why?

 

[MnFish1]

Why?

BTW - just to clarify the reason I asked 'why'. the OP has no problem with his tank. His N (not sure whether you're abbreviating Nitrates or total N here - is within parameters - there is an excess. Why dose more ?

 

[nm07]

The largest concern that arises from nitrate and phosphate bottoming out is the reduction in the size of bacterial colonies both within the water column and on the rock and substrate itself. When both nitrate and phosphate hit zero, purely photosynthetic organisms that can survive (and indeed thrive) without nitrate and phosphate (such as dinoflagellates or cyanobacteria) will start to take over as the bacterial colonies die off due to starvation, leaving them an easy life with no competition. This will cause a negative feedback loop, where more bacteria die off as the dinos or cyano start to replicate and take over, less bacteria will reduce the amount of natural food corals have available to consume so will reduce their growth (or even starve them), as well as make the tank look very unsightly. This process can be difficult to get under control if not caught early. Dinos in particular (more so than cyano) are a nightmare, and in some cases people have ended up restarting their entire tank to eradicate the problem, or left the hobby altogether due to frustration.

I experienced this first hand when I first got into saltwater tanks, and made the mistake of letting my tank bottom out on nitrate and phosphate. Dinos took over very badly and in a short space of time, and it was a serious battle to get things back under control, but I won the battle by doing this:

1. Use Fauna Marin DinoX to eradicate the existing dinos in the tank, and reset to a fresh slate
2. Once DinoX treatment complete, and remaining dinos had died, heavily dose bottled bacteria daily to outcompete any new dinos trying to regrow
3. Dose nitrate to at least 10ppm and phosphate to at least 0.1ppm to feed the bottled bacteria (water was cloudy due to such an enormous bacterial bloom)
4. After a few weeks, slowly stop dosing bacteria and allow the excess bacteria to start naturally die off, ensuring that nitrate was kept to at least 5ppm and phosphate 0.05ppm going forwards to keep the colonies fed

The dinos have since (touch wood!) not reared their ugly head again

I still have to dose my tank with bottled nitrate and phosphate to this day to ensure the levels don't bottom out, and don't see an issue with this. Letting nutrients bottom out, or just get close to 0 without very careful supervision is not a good idea in my opinion.

 

[jda]

In 30 years of reefing, never had issues with dinos, cyano or diatoms with no3 at .1 (need ICP to detect) and po4 at 1-3 ppb. I guess that I am lucky... or I never had nice, sterile places for them to colonize without competition. It isn't like dinos did not exist before dry/dead rock entered the hobby. There is a really easy common denominator that most don't want to see...

I have typed thousands of paragraphs on this sentiment of lower no3 and po4 being blamed for dinos is wrong, but I can assure you that the same things that matting bacteria and dinos use for building blocks are the same things that surface, film and waterborne bacteria use. It is a good thing that bacteria can use ammonia and nitrite or we would not have ecosystems as we know them. Is there a bacteria that can get nitrogen from nitrate is in the presense of oxygen - I don't know, I am asking? People think that when carbon dosing that the bacteria use the no3, which is why it goes down, but it is also likely that they just don't allow the ammonia and nitrite to get to nitrate. There used to be a bacteriologist on the board who would say as much, but I have not seen him in a while.

If dinos were a problem, the OP would have mentioned them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

BTW - just to clarify the reason I asked 'why'. the OP has no problem with his tank. His N (not sure whether you're abbreviating Nitrates or total N here - is within parameters - there is an excess. Why dose more ?

Because it is at or below the low end and he said it is declining. I would preemptively keep it at 2+ ppm nitrate.

 

[Reeflix]

I guess I didn't understand your comment. Sterile, Maybe clarify?

well by sterile i mean the tank wont have nitrates over 3 without me dosing... it wants to be "clean" in tank terms... nutrients are low in my tank without dosing etc

 

[Dan_P]

Hi everyone,

My fluval evo 13.5 is a little over 9 months old and I’ve reached a weird breaking point. After months of battling high nitrates (30s), within the last month my nitrates have started to bottom out ranging from 1-5.

Some background:
I run a LPS dominant mixed reef with a good amount of softies and SPS (including acropora). My alkalinity has finally stabilized by dosing All For Reef 3x a day. I spot dose magnesium and calcium as needed. I perform 10% water changes about once a week. Filter setup includes an In Tank chamber 1 with floss, chemipure blue, and MarinePure spheres.

Tank is stocked with an ocillaris clown, six line wrasse, tailspot blenny, and green clown goby. I also have an assortment of snails and 1 hermit.

I autofeed pellets twice daily and spot feed reef roids 2-3x per week.

My Issue:
I can’t figure out why my nitrates have started to bottom out. For about 8 months my tank would stay steady at Nitrates of 20. Phos between 0.04-0.1. My coral growth has really started to explode now that my tank parameters have stabilized and maybe I’m seeing the side effects of that with my nutrients.

Solutions?
I’m looking for ideas on how to keep my nitrates around 10. It’s a small tank and my fear is that dosing something like NeoNitro will destabilize everything. Any other solutions? Particularly things that have worked for small tanks.

Thanks!

Sounds like your system is fine. If you feel life would be better with slightly more nitrate, just dose food grade sodium nitrate.

 

[MnFish1]

IMO, it is perfectly acceptable and desirable to dose nitrate and phosphate as needed to maintain appropriate levels, which, IMO, are 2-10 ppm nitrate and 0.02 to 0.1 ppm phosphate, with levels above that range better than below it.

Of course, if you need both N and P, feeding more is a fine plan, as long as other issues do not arise such as bacterial blooms, etc.

If someone is concerned about nitrate, it is also fine to dose ammonia or amino acids to boost N overall and boost nitrate.

yes. ok - but wasn't he in your range? unless I'm mistaken - and you can correct me - a drop below that range would not be a catastrophe

 

[MnFish1]

Sounds like your system is fine. If you feel life would be better with slightly more nitrate, just dose food grade sodium nitrate.

Or just feed more - IMHO there is no need for dosing if one is checking for nitates frequently

 

[MnFish1]

well by sterile i mean the tank wont have nitrates over 3 without me dosing... it wants to be "clean" in tank terms... nutrients are low in my tank without dosing et

No offense - your comment makes no sense. There is no rule that 3 or 2 or 1 is preferable. If its above 0 - your tank is not utilizing the nitrate available.

 

[csturgis1989]

Or just feed more - IMHO there is no need for dosing if one is checking for nitates frequently

Did I not say that and then you said not to in prior posts lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

yes. ok - but wasn't he in your range? unless I'm mistaken - and you can correct me - a drop below that range would not be a catastrophe

I don't understand the confusion. My recommended range is 2-10 ppm nitrate.

He said

"within the last month my nitrates have started to bottom out ranging from 1-5."

So sometimes he is not within the range, and it seems to be lower now than previously so there is concern it may go even lower.

Thus, I'd dose or feed more.

 

[MnFish1]

Did I not say that and then you said not to in prior posts lol

No - not that I remember. I think I said - and will say again - there is no need to do anything with those values. In a subsequent post - I believe - I'm not gong to go re-review all of them - I said - If you want to increase nitrate - just feed more. To use your quote LOL

 

[MnFish1]

I don't understand the confusion. My recommended range is 2-10 ppm nitrate.

He said

"within the last month my nitrates have started to bottom out ranging from 1-5."

So sometimes he is not within the range, and it seems to be lower now than previously so there is concern it may go even lower.

Thus, I'd dose or feed more.

I perhaps didn't understand the post - or perhaps the poster wasn't clear. I would not dose nitrate based on a couple measurements below your range of 2. In fact - I'm not sure where your range comes from - but - in general - it depends on the goal, right? Anything above 0 means that there is nitrate continually available for organisms. i.e. - The growth might be slower at 1 than 2 - but not life threatening?

 

[Reeflix]

No offense - your comment makes no sense. There is no rule that 3 or 2 or 1 is preferable. If its above 0 - your tank is not utilizing the nitrate available.

oh i dont care. i guess it makes sense you dont understand... i probably couldnt explain it without you having to have been with my tank since the start. it is compilcated and i dont have a problem to fix i am happy with everything. unless you really want to know (which i am fine with explaining it to but it is really complicated) but just take by word for it my tank tries to be "clean"

 

[Reef.]

Could you post a current tank pic? As the soft coral in my tank started to get big, they were nutrient pigs. I ended up putting them in their own little tank.

A pic would be good as I would love to see the nano tank that has no po4 control yet is bottoming out nutrients, feeding as much as was stated.

 

[Spare time]

The largest concern that arises from nitrate and phosphate bottoming out is the reduction in the size of bacterial colonies both within the water column and on the rock and substrate itself. When both nitrate and phosphate hit zero, purely photosynthetic organisms that can survive (and indeed thrive) without nitrate and phosphate (such as dinoflagellates or cyanobacteria) will start to take over as the bacterial colonies die off due to starvation, leaving them an easy life with no competition. This will cause a negative feedback loop, where more bacteria die off as the dinos or cyano start to replicate and take over, less bacteria will reduce the amount of natural food corals have available to consume so will reduce their growth (or even starve them), as well as make the tank look very unsightly. This process can be difficult to get under control if not caught early. Dinos in particular (more so than cyano) are a nightmare, and in some cases people have ended up restarting their entire tank to eradicate the problem, or left the hobby altogether due to frustration.

I experienced this first hand when I first got into saltwater tanks, and made the mistake of letting my tank bottom out on nitrate and phosphate. Dinos took over very badly and in a short space of time, and it was a serious battle to get things back under control, but I won the battle by doing this:

1. Use Fauna Marin DinoX to eradicate the existing dinos in the tank, and reset to a fresh slate
2. Once DinoX treatment complete, and remaining dinos had died, heavily dose bottled bacteria daily to outcompete any new dinos trying to regrow
3. Dose nitrate to at least 10ppm and phosphate to at least 0.1ppm to feed the bottled bacteria (water was cloudy due to such an enormous bacterial bloom)
4. After a few weeks, slowly stop dosing bacteria and allow the excess bacteria to start naturally die off, ensuring that nitrate was kept to at least 5ppm and phosphate 0.05ppm going forwards to keep the colonies fed

The dinos have since (touch wood!) not reared their ugly head again

I still have to dose my tank with bottled nitrate and phosphate to this day to ensure the levels don't bottom out, and don't see an issue with this. Letting nutrients bottom out, or just get close to 0 without very careful supervision is not a good idea in my opinion.

That doesn't make sense. Photosynthesis does not produce nitrogen or phosphate. The organisms still need it (albeit some cyano can take it from the atmosphere).

 

[Cyanohater]

Hi everyone,

My fluval evo 13.5 is a little over 9 months old and I’ve reached a weird breaking point. After months of battling high nitrates (30s), within the last month my nitrates have started to bottom out ranging from 1-5.

Some background:
I run a LPS dominant mixed reef with a good amount of softies and SPS (including acropora). My alkalinity has finally stabilized by dosing All For Reef 3x a day. I spot dose magnesium and calcium as needed. I perform 10% water changes about once a week. Filter setup includes an In Tank chamber 1 with floss, chemipure blue, and MarinePure spheres.

Tank is stocked with an ocillaris clown, six line wrasse, tailspot blenny, and green clown goby. I also have an assortment of snails and 1 hermit.

I autofeed pellets twice daily and spot feed reef roids 2-3x per week.

My Issue:
I can’t figure out why my nitrates have started to bottom out. For about 8 months my tank would stay steady at Nitrates of 20. Phos between 0.04-0.1. My coral growth has really started to explode now that my tank parameters have stabilized and maybe I’m seeing the side effects of that with my nutrients.

Solutions?
I’m looking for ideas on how to keep my nitrates around 10. It’s a small tank and my fear is that dosing something like NeoNitro will destabilize everything. Any other solutions? Particularly things that have worked for small tanks.

Thanks!

I wouldn't chase numbers, personally. I began the hobby and would stress over this, but now I'm more laid back and let it run its course it has worked well. Now obviously having a mandarin a 49 gallon I'm culturing and doing this and that with the tank but yall know what I mean. At any rate if your corals aren't happy and growing take out the chemi pure blue it is taking out your nitrates. When I first began I put chemipure in my tank thinking it was good (fluval Evo 13.5) and it just wasn't. But again if fish and corals are happy and everything looks great just follow your steady schedule. Aka feeding the corals and stuff.