Low Nitrates and Phosphates

[gbroadbridge]

Carbon limitation:
I think a lot of people struggling to get phosphate up misread the directions because I’ve seen threads on what you said above. Here they are:

3. Apply NEOPHOS as directed below to attain a phosphate concentration of ~0.02 ppm.

4. Allow 24-hours to elapse; re-test nitrate and phosphate concentrations. If concentrations remain unchanged, then the system is likely carbon-limited. Dose with REEF BIOFUEL at the rate of 1-ml per 25 US-gallons and allow 24-hours to elapse, then re-test phosphate and nitrate concentrations. Continue daily dosing with REEF BIOFUEL until phosphate or nitrate concentrations begin to decrease, indicating that the rate of carbon input to the system matches the rate of phosphorus- or nitrogen-input, respectively.

The key is step 3. It’s not saying you’re “carbon limited” if you can’t get it up. It’s saying dose until you get it up, wait 24 hours, and then if it doesn’t DECREASE consider “carbon limitation.” In other words not dosing what should give you 0.02, but dosing until you actually measure that level first. Then step 4 after 24 hours.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like marketing nonsense.

To increase PO4 you add phosphate like monosodium phosphate you can buy cheap on ebay or amazon.

I don't know what is in REEF-BIOFUEL but it is probably an organic carbon like vinegar which you can buy at walmart or costco for 1 dollar a gallon. Or if you're a teetotaller, use the bottle of vodka and get the fish merry for thanksgiving.

Regards
Graham.

 

[ariellemermaid]

I'm sorry, but this sounds like marketing nonsense.

To increase PO4 you add phosphate like monosodium phosphate you can buy cheap on ebay or amazon.

I don't know what is in REEF-BIOFUEL but it is probably an organic carbon like vinegar which you can buy at walmart or costco for 1 dollar a gallon. Or if you're a teetotaller, use the bottle of vodka and get the fish merry for thanksgiving.

Regards
Graham.

Oh it very well might be and I’ve never even used these products. I’m not commenting on the concept, only that the OP and others have misread the directions and start talking about carbon limitation when unable to get PO4 UP. And it’s easy to see: “0.02, wait 24, and if unchanged “carbon limited.” Instead of the word “unchanged” it should say “decrease” because that’s what they actually mean. To be fair step 3 clearly says “attain concentration” not “dose.” Otherwise it’s easy to interpret it as the OP did. Now whether the whole “carbon limitation” thing is BS or not I have no comment on. But it definitely has nothing to do with troubles INCREASING PO4 according to these directions.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Dosing is the best, cleanest way trust me research n03 and p04 dosing more, you will be glad you did.

I FULLY agree. I have a solution of trisodium phosphate and potassium nitrate that I dose a few Ml per hour and I keep JUST enough constant nutrients to keep the tank happy. Zero algae (almost to the point I actually have to feed my CUC). Tank looks great

 

[fushi]

I FULLY agree. I have a solution of trisodium phosphate and potassium nitrate that I dose a few Ml per hour and I keep JUST enough constant nutrients to keep the tank happy. Zero algae (almost to the point I actually have to feed my CUC). Tank looks great

Would you mind sharing your trisodium phosphate and potassium nitrate recipe? I currently use ME PO4 and NO3 but wanna switch to something that I can use with a dosing pump.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Would you mind sharing your trisodium phosphate and potassium nitrate recipe? I currently use ME PO4 and NO3 but wanna switch to something that I can use with a dosing pump.

1,500 ML of water. 4 tablespoons of Potassium Nitrate and 1 teaspoon of trisodium phosphate

Dose 3 ML every 2 hours.

 

[fushi]

So I've increased feeding to x5 frozen blocks throughout the day. Nitrates showing between 1-2 on tropic marin kit. Phosphate still not showing anything, there's a slight tinge to the test kit but nothing on the scale.

I've turned my reactor running GFO off as well. The sps frag looks done, unfortunately. Sand & back wall still has some brown algae on it but its not stringy/bubbles so thinking ots not dino

I think gfo is not good for most situations so I think its a good idea you took it offline. It might not be fun but manually removing algae and a good clean up crew is usually the best way to deal with the algae you are seeing. With your tank being new it might just be diatoms your seeing which will usually run their course naturally.

 

[fushi]

1,500 ML of water. 4 tablespoons of Potassium Nitrate and 1 teaspoon of trisodium phosphate

Dose 3 ML every 2 hours.

Do you happen to use the following brand as your TSP? I actually have some in my garage lol.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I think gfo is not good for most situations so I think its a good idea you took it offline. It might not be fun but manually removing algae and a good clean up crew is usually the best way to deal with the algae you are seeing. With your tank being new it might just be diatoms your seeing which will usually run their course naturally.

GFO is dangerous.

Do you happen to use the following brand as your TSP? I actually have some in my garage lol.

I used loudwolf because I believe in paying more than you should!!


But I dont see why that wouldnt work.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do you happen to use the following brand as your TSP? I actually have some in my garage lol.

I recommend food grade.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Would you mind sharing your trisodium phosphate and potassium nitrate recipe? I currently use ME PO4 and NO3 but wanna switch to something that I can use with a dosing pump.

Use this calculator to make a dosing solution and use it:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

FWIW, I'm not a fan of potassium nitrate unless you monitor potassium. Sodium nitrate is a less risky bet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

GFO is dangerous.

So is a kitchen stove if used improperly.

Neither is dangerous when used properly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think gfo is not good for most situations so I think its a good idea you took it offline. It might not be fun but manually removing algae and a good clean up crew is usually the best way to deal with the algae you are seeing. With your tank being new it might just be diatoms your seeing which will usually run their course naturally.

I used it 24/7 and think it a good product for controlling phosphate.

That said, it is not necessarily a good way to deal with algae.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

So is a kitchen stove if used improperly.

Neither is dangerous when used properly.

apparently i hit post before I finished my thought. I fully agree. People using GFO as a miracle in a bottle are usually going to be disappointed. People using it to fine tune a process is great.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Use this calculator to make a dosing solution and use it:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

FWIW, I'm not a fan of potassium nitrate unless you monitor potassium. Sodium nitrate is a less risky bet.

Thanks. I was planning on switching over. I am wondering if the potassium build up was causing some of my coral issues.

 

[fushi]

I used it 24/7 and think it a good product for controlling phosphate.

That said, it is not necessarily a good way to deal with algae.

I just think most people just dump it in a reactor and see what happens and that there are better solutions for most situations. But I guess dumping anything in and hoping for the best is more of the issue lol

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I just think most people just dump it in a reactor and see what happens and that there are better solutions for most situations. But I guess dumping anything in and hoping for the best is more of the issue lol

That was my first experience with GFO and why i called it dangerous. Caused my phosphates to plummet and my Dino problems to begin.

 

[fushi]

Use this calculator to make a dosing solution and use it:

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

FWIW, I'm not a fan of potassium nitrate unless you monitor potassium. Sodium nitrate is a less risky bet.

Thank you for the info.

According to my icp I do have slightly high potassium which I figured was from dosing Potassium nitrate.

I just read through https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/trisodium-phosphate-dosing-math.354337/ and got the formula.

Do you have a brand recommendation for sodium nitrate and are the any issues with mixing it with TSP?

Or do you recommend something different for a mixed nitrate/phosphate solution?

Im just trying to not buy another dosing pump lol

 

[ScottB]

I recommend food grade.

I've used this for years.

 

[ScottB]

Thank you for the info.

According to my icp I do have slightly high potassium which I figured was from dosing Potassium nitrate.

I just read through https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/trisodium-phosphate-dosing-math.354337/ and got the formula.

Do you have a brand recommendation for sodium nitrate and are the any issues with mixing it with TSP?

Or do you recommend something different for a mixed nitrate/phosphate solution?

Im just trying to not buy another dosing pump lol

When I was dosing I ran them separate. It is easy and quick to get a nitrate reading and keep it. If your rock/sand is PO4 depleted, it can require a liter or more of phosphate solution. My experience anyway.

If pressed, I would use the doser with PO4 and manually dose nitrates.

 

[fushi]

I've used this for years.

Thank you