Low Nitrates but high Phosphates

[youcallmenny1]

I've been down this rabbithole myself. In my case the low nitrates and high phosphates were not effected by addressing the phospates at all. It was actually a product of underfeeding my system. It literally almost drove me out of the hobby. I tried everything, phosphate reactor/lower feeding/filter roller etc etc. I have a decent sized refugium that wasn't growing chaeto at all through all this. By upping my feeding to daily frozen/nori, it raised my nitrates which allowed the chaeto to grow which consumes both nitrate and phosphate. Now I have to feed the tank pretty heavy handedly to keep my nitrates between 2-5ppm and phosphate 0.03-0.05 ppm. Just my two cents and I admit without a fuge I'm not sure how comparable the situation is.

 

[Saltyreef]

I've been down this rabbithole myself. In my case the low nitrates and high phosphates were not effected by addressing the phospates at all. It was actually a product of underfeeding my system. It literally almost drove me out of the hobby. I tried everything, phosphate reactor/lower feeding/filter roller etc etc. I have a decent sized refugium that wasn't growing chaeto at all through all this. By upping my feeding to daily frozen/nori, it raised my nitrates which allowed the chaeto to grow which consumes both nitrate and phosphate. Now I have to feed the tank pretty heavy handedly to keep my nitrates between 2-5ppm and phosphate 0.03-0.05 ppm. Just my two cents and I admit without a fuge I'm not sure how comparable the situation is.

This is an awesome observation!!!!
Thank you for sharing!

 

[terraincognita]

In my own tanks, after the biological filtration establishes I've always found my Phosphates are super spiked while all the other nutrients are normal.

This is literally in almost every tank. I'm sure there's a reason for this, but without a big W/C they never go down without natural consumption through adding corals and macros and continuing to feed etc, which like @youcallmenny1 said then consumes the Phos when it consumes the Nitrate as well.

Carbon dosing helps me speed that process along as well. But won't do it alone. You have to ensure you have something in the tank that's going to consume nitrates and Phosphates (Like lots of coral, or someone get a fuge worked in)

I'd recommend for a quick fix to just do a large W/C and it may solve it and balance it out?

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hi. Ive been tackling this problem for maybe a month now. I run a 27gallon AIO tank with 2 osce clownfish, a 6 line wrasse and a hermit crab. I have a frag of GSP, a Yuma Mushroom, a Hammer coral and a frag of Zoanthids. For the time being, my hammer coral and my zoanthid seemingly to be quite unhappy. My hammer has retracted (not fully, there are still the heads inflated but the "tentacles" are retracted) and my zoanthids seem to retract since today.
I feed my fish pellet food, zooplanktos-s and mysis shrimp (I change their diet per day). I feed once a day and keep the volume of food on the low.

I run a mechanical filter (filter floss), Phosguard, ROWAPHOS GFO, some bio balls, a bag of carbon and a bubble magus QQ protein skimmer.
I use Cove salt.
From the last water change I did, I tested all the parameters below.

Salinity : 1.024
Ammonia : 0
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 0 - undetectable
Phosphate : 0.5-1 (have been hovering in these values since last month I checked, even after a 10-20% waterchange)
Alkalinity : 6.7-8 (it reaches 6.7 right before the water change and is at 8 right after the water change).

I also use an Aqua Knight spectra light for my corals. I do water change weekly on saturdays.

How can I lower my Phosphate levels? cause it seems weird to have 0 nitrates but sky high phosphates.
I added the GFO last 2 weeks and it seems to have little to no effect on the chemistry.

Also, I only turn on my skimmer at night because I aim to increase the Nitrates in my tank to detectable levels.

Ive heard of Lanthanum Chloride but I have no luck in finding the product here in my area (Sarawak, Malaysia).

Ive heard also of carbon dosing (using sugar, vodka or vinegar or No Pox).

Which technique do you guys think is okay?

0.5 -1.0 po4 is not high. It's where Hammers and Zoa's like it.

You need to get your NO3 up to 5-10ppm to make them happy.

 

[terraincognita]

Also make sure you're testing your Phosphates correctly if you're using the hanna checker you have to shake it for the full 2 minutes

 

[Pistondog]

Ill try and find some Phosphate E near my LFS in the near future. Ive seen really good reviews on lanthanum chloride so Ill opt for that after I change their feeding schedule and see if it still needs some tweakings. Is it a temporary fix or is it a permanent fix? (Lanthanum chloride)

The phosphate is likely coming from the rocks, lanthanum chloride is the bestvway to deal with this. Keep your skimmer running and dose it very slowly and diluted. It may take some weeks to get it out of the rocks. Remove gfo before using LC. No need to dose nitrate with LC either.

 

[Tired]

That phosphate level is just fine for LPS and zoas. In fact, it's probably desirable for them.

Crank those nitrates up. Once they're up enough for your photosynthetic organisms to get going, said organisms will use up both nitrates and phosphates.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

DIY reactors are cheap. I keep a spare reactor for times of high phosphates. I use rawaphos and it will strip my system of phosphates so well that, I need to monitor with a Hanna checker. I also think you need nitrates if your relying on your skimmer or any form of carbon dosing to pull out po4

 

[Uzair Aiman]

I've been down this rabbithole myself. In my case the low nitrates and high phosphates were not effected by addressing the phospates at all. It was actually a product of underfeeding my system. It literally almost drove me out of the hobby. I tried everything, phosphate reactor/lower feeding/filter roller etc etc. I have a decent sized refugium that wasn't growing chaeto at all through all this. By upping my feeding to daily frozen/nori, it raised my nitrates which allowed the chaeto to grow which consumes both nitrate and phosphate. Now I have to feed the tank pretty heavy handedly to keep my nitrates between 2-5ppm and phosphate 0.03-0.05 ppm. Just my two cents and I admit without a fuge I'm not sure how comparable the situation is.

Well the fact that I dont have chaeto makes me think this technique wont help me in this :/ But I am really trying to increase my nitrates to detectable amounts

 

[Uzair Aiman]

In my own tanks, after the biological filtration establishes I've always found my Phosphates are super spiked while all the other nutrients are normal.

This is literally in almost every tank. I'm sure there's a reason for this, but without a big W/C they never go down without natural consumption through adding corals and macros and continuing to feed etc, which like @youcallmenny1 said then consumes the Phos when it consumes the Nitrate as well.

Carbon dosing helps me speed that process along as well. But won't do it alone. You have to ensure you have something in the tank that's going to consume nitrates and Phosphates (Like lots of coral, or someone get a fuge worked in)

I'd recommend for a quick fix to just do a large W/C and it may solve it and balance it out?

I did a 50% waterchange when i saw the spike happen in the first place, but it didnt even look like it dented the numbers when I checked the next morning. Ive read that carbon dosing requires both nitrates and phosphates to function efficiently. So, I think Im just trying to increase my nitrates for now and see how my system goes and looks

 

[Uzair Aiman]

0.5 -1.0 po4 is not high. It's where Hammers and Zoa's like it.

You need to get your NO3 up to 5-10ppm to make them happy.

Any techniques you would recommend to increase the numbers of nitrates in my tank?

 

[Uzair Aiman]

Also make sure you're testing your Phosphates correctly if you're using the hanna checker you have to shake it for the full 2 minutes

Im only using a Saliferts Phosphate checker, thats why I couldnt pinpoint the exact numbers I get when testing the water params :/

 

[Uzair Aiman]

The phosphate is likely coming from the rocks, lanthanum chloride is the bestvway to deal with this. Keep your skimmer running and dose it very slowly and diluted. It may take some weeks to get it out of the rocks. Remove gfo before using LC. No need to dose nitrate with LC either.

Yea maybe. I will try to find some lanthanum chloride if there is any available. But for now I think I would need to increase my nitrate levels to a detectable state and see how it goes. People seem to say that these levels of phosphates are ideal for LPS and Zoas. If increasing the nitrates dont work then Ill look more into decreasing the Phosphate lvels.

 

[Uzair Aiman]

That phosphate level is just fine for LPS and zoas. In fact, it's probably desirable for them.

Crank those nitrates up. Once they're up enough for your photosynthetic organisms to get going, said organisms will use up both nitrates and phosphates.

Is there a way or technique you would recommend to increase nitrate levels to detectable numbers? What numbers of nitrates should I be aiming for? And I would appreciate "natural" ways to increase nitrates first before trying to dose things into my tank. Thanks in advance

 

[BradB]

I've noticed my tank has always either had high phosphate and low nitrate, or high nitrate and low phosphate. If both are high, I get algae (either in my refugium or the bad kind in the display), but that lowers both. Either one being low limits the other being taken up. I've had much better success with high nitrate and low phosphate than the other way around.

What are you feeding fish? I've thought this might be the issue. Most good fish food is low phosphate, but cheap fish food, and possibly a lot of grocery store seafood, is high in phosphate.

Why are you going through GFO and all this in a 27 gallon? You can do a 50% water change with less than 3 bucket fulls!

 

[terraincognita]

Is there a way or technique you would recommend to increase nitrate levels to detectable numbers? What numbers of nitrates should I be aiming for? And I would appreciate "natural" ways to increase nitrates first before trying to dose things into my tank. Thanks in advance

Feed more.

Or dose reef roids. or another "coral food"

Thats an easy way.

 

[Uzair Aiman]

Feed more.

Or dose reef roids. or another "coral food"

Thats an easy way.

Doesnt feeding more increase both nitrates AND phosphates? I’m afraid if I were to feed more, My phosphates would go out of control.

 

[nereefpat]

Doesnt feeding more increase both nitrates AND phosphates? I’m afraid if I were to feed more, My phosphates would go out of control.

Yes, especially the 'reef roids'.

 

[Tired]

Don't worry too much about your phosphates. They have to be really high to start doing any harm at all, and the main harm they do is they can possibly make new growth on stony corals kind of brittle. They're at a very reasonable number right now for a lot of corals.

Dosing nitrates won't increase phosphates. Remember, your light and filter aren't natural, so there's no reason everything you do in your tank has to be.

Make sure you're feeding your fish well- as much as they'll eat in a few minutes, daily. Feed any LPS and any other corals that want food. Broadcast-feed a tiny pinch of Reef Roids, maybe.

 

[Uzair Aiman]

Don't worry too much about your phosphates. They have to be really high to start doing any harm at all, and the main harm they do is they can possibly make new growth on stony corals kind of brittle. They're at a very reasonable number right now for a lot of corals.

Dosing nitrates won't increase phosphates. Remember, your light and filter aren't natural, so there's no reason everything you do in your tank has to be.

Make sure you're feeding your fish well- as much as they'll eat in a few minutes, daily. Feed any LPS and any other corals that want food. Broadcast-feed a tiny pinch of Reef Roids, maybe.

I wasnt talking about dosing nitrates in the above statements, as said by Terraincognita, feed more. Thats why I wonder if feeding food more will increase both nitrates AND phosphates?