Low nutrients, brown/dying SPS

[2Wheelsonly]

To me those readings look barely adequate, and magnesium is to low and this can have an impact on the chemical interactions in the tank (been there) and it may well affect coral health.

The KH is at the bottom end of being adequate and taking into account test error could be either lower to make matters worse, or of course slightly higher

If it were me I’d bump of those parameters to something along the lines of this which you may have seen already

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

I don't think those readings are bad at all; mine have been very similar and I have a 300G full of growing SPS that are outgrowing the maintenance I can put into it.

Age of tank plays a big role; no matter what in my experiences my tank needs to be up 1-2 years first before anything flourishes. Prior to 1 year I have trouble, after 1 I have to try to kill stuff.

Just feed fish more and rather than keep making changes...just divert from SPS for a bit and revisit over time. It will cause you less stress in the long run. Focus on longevity.

 

[AdamB]

Need help here.
Following . I lost several of my sps 2 weeks ago. I’m
Assuming nitrates and phosphates at 0 are the culprit ! My lps are doing fine .


Kh 7.0
Ca 410
Mg 1200
NO3 2.5
PO4 0.018

XR30W SPS AB+ 250-350 PAR mostly
Lot of flow: 50/70x tank volume.
Full Triton method.

Some SPS are doing ok, some bleached, most are browning and receding from the base. Zero growth. No signs of parasites.

what the heck is going on?
Are they starving? - receding from the base-
Are they full of zooxantellae? -browning-

As of now I’m throwing whatever I can in the tank. Coral food, fish food, aminos, everything.

I’m clueless here.

 

[living_tribunal]

You guys digressed a bit...
However, I changed the following:
1. Reduced photoperiod in fuge
2. Skimming dry (almost nothing)
3. Activated carbon out
4. I made solutions of NaNO3 and KPO4. Started dosing them
5. Feeding heavily + increasing aminos

Will see what happens.

Just try to keep it balanced. When you need to dirty things up, a slow approach is best.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

 

[primoleo]

I’ve got my ICP test today.
I got high Tin and Aluminium.
Slightly low Mg and K.

 

[mattfish]

Your nitrates and phosphates are too low for sps frags. Start feeding heavy. I had issues like you are having years ago and couldn’t figure it out. Turns out, those “recommended numbers” are nothing but a myth. My acros grow like nuts now with po4 at .1 and no3 at 30
Lots of light lots of flow.

Neophos is awful. Watered down. Get Seachem phosphate and add. I have mine hooked up to a dosing pump.

Hello , just wanted to confirm your recommendations , you are saying 30 ppm NO3 not {.30 } yes ? Your numbers are close to what BRS says -- PO4 - 0.1ppm ,but they only say 20 ppm NO3., going to bring mine up a little at a time , ill see how it goes.

 

[UCF Alum]

I’ve got my ICP test today.
I got high Tin and Aluminium.
Slightly low Mg and K.

same here. Ripped tank apart when I first got the results and couldn’t find the source. Curious as to what salt are you using.

Do you maintain SPS,LPS, softies?

 

[UCF Alum]

Hello , just wanted to confirm your recommendations , you are saying 30 ppm NO3 not {.30 } yes ? Your numbers are close to what BRS says -- PO4 - 0.1ppm ,but they only say 20 ppm NO3., going to bring mine up a little at a time , ill see how it goes.

Thirty (30) ppm nitrate. My po4 is now .17

I know @Chaswood79 maintains similar numbers on his Acro tank as well.

 

[PurpleMonsterSlayer]

My pH is 8.2-8.3 all the time

What do you test ph with and how oftentimes, what time of day?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Thirty (30) ppm nitrate. My po4 is now .17

I know @Chaswood79 maintains similar numbers on his Acro tank as well.

I do
My po4 was 0.24 last time I checked

 

[mattfish]

Thirty (30) ppm nitrate. My po4 is now .17

I know @Chaswood79 maintains similar numbers on his Acro tank as well.

Any algae problems ?

 

[UCF Alum]

Any algae problems ?

Zero. I run a refugium and actually dose potassium phosphate when it get below .1
Yes .1 Not .01
Needing low no3 and po4 for a successful tank is a myth. There’s tons of people on here running similar numbers with great success.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Zero. I run a refugium and actually dose potassium phosphate when it get below .1
Yes .1 Not .01
Needing low no3 and po4 for a successful tank is a myth. There’s tons of people on here running similar numbers with great success.

I see tanks that are awesome that run higher nutrient levels. I want to buy that the low nutrient requirement is a myth but I just don't understand. Where inorganic nutrients, light, and everything else needed for algae growth are present, why doesn't it grow out of control in some tanks? Why is stony coral growth not suppressed where phosphate is so elevated? I understand that mature systems can operate at higher levels of nutrient input and grown out corals don't need to grow so much, but man, my tank would explode if I allowed nutrients to go anywhere near those levels. What gives? Did those systems that operate at high nutrient levels always have such high levels or did they operate at lower levels until they were very mature? Is there some super secret clean-up crew that allows it? Etc.?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I see tanks that are awesome that run higher nutrient levels. I want to buy that the low nutrient requirement is a myth but I just don't understand. Where inorganic nutrients, light, and everything else needed for algae growth are present, why doesn't it grow out of control in some tanks? Why is stony coral growth not suppressed where phosphate is so elevated? I understand that mature systems can operate at higher levels of nutrient input and grown out corals don't need to grow so much, but man, my tank would explode if I allowed nutrients to go anywhere near those levels. What gives? Did those systems that operate at high nutrient levels always have such high levels or did they operate at lower levels until they were very mature? Is there some super secret clean-up crew that allows it? Etc.?

Some of the newer studies have shown that corals prefer to get their nitrogen source from ammonia/ammonium over no3/po4. I think it’s really important to have the correct balance of no3/po4 to alk and light intensity. My tank does grow a bunch of algae, but it’s chaeto and it grows in the sump, so if you don’t have a fuge or a large collection of corals then yes, it’s highly likely to cause unwanted hair algae. I do keep about 30 hermit crabs, 10 or more turbo snails, 1 tang, 1 Blenny and 1 fox face to help with any algae that maybe growing in the display.

 

[blasterman]

If SPS requires nutrients explain why I have tanks with *zero* live stock in them, zero nitrate / zero phosphate / zero anything else and acropora are thriving? Explain my friends running large propagation tanks and have *zero* live stock in them with zero nutrient levels and have glorious SPS growth?

Captive tanks are not the ocean. What happens in a captive tank where you have fish and hence dumping nutrients in the water is you have multiple competiting biologies in play all of which would be in check in the ocean with very low nutrient levels. However, in a captive tank with fish those bacteria and algae colonies suddenly have 1000x the nutrient levels to feed on, they pull other nutrients out of the water that SPS require, and start turning on their bio combat engines. Now your SPS are looking bad and we're blaming the low N03 / P04 levels as the culprit. The low N03 / P04 are just the symptom.

This is why one guy has high N03 / P04 levels and no issues while another has zero N03 / P04 and is tank has nuisance algae an inch deep.

I recently pulled two birdnests colonies out of my high nutrient softie garden that had stopped growing. They were perfectly healthy with good PE, but their growth nodes had disappeared over the past month. I put them in a spanking fresh tank with no inhabitants other than other Acros and some Acans, and within 48 hours I saw growth nodes returning and are now back on full blast growth. N03 / P04 are not the issue. It's what also eating those nutrients along with other nutrients and competing with SPS.

Also, we need to stop granting other LPS like euphyllia a not guilty verdict because we think it looks cool. Got a basketball sized hammer coral in your tank that's growing like crazy while your SPS have dying tips and looking weak? Connect the dots.

 

[KJoFan]

If SPS requires nutrients explain why I have tanks with *zero* live stock in them, zero nitrate / zero phosphate / zero anything else and acropora are thriving? Explain my friends running large propagation tanks and have *zero* live stock in them with zero nutrient levels and have glorious SPS growth?

Captive tanks are not the ocean. What happens in a captive tank where you have fish and hence dumping nutrients in the water is you have multiple competiting biologies in play all of which would be in check in the ocean with very low nutrient levels. However, in a captive tank with fish those bacteria and algae colonies suddenly have 1000x the nutrient levels to feed on, they pull other nutrients out of the water that SPS require, and start turning on their bio combat engines. Now your SPS are looking bad and we're blaming the low N03 / P04 levels as the culprit. The low N03 / P04 are just the symptom.

This is why one guy has high N03 / P04 levels and no issues while another has zero N03 / P04 and is tank has nuisance algae an inch deep.

I recently pulled two birdnests colonies out of my high nutrient softie garden that had stopped growing. They were perfectly healthy with good PE, but their growth nodes had disappeared over the past month. I put them in a spanking fresh tank with no inhabitants other than other Acros and some Acans, and within 48 hours I saw growth nodes returning and are now back on full blast growth. N03 / P04 are not the issue. It's what also eating those nutrients along with other nutrients and competing with SPS.

Also, we need to stop granting other LPS like euphyllia a not guilty verdict because we think it looks cool. Got a basketball sized hammer coral in your tank that's growing like crazy while your SPS have dying tips and looking weak? Connect the dots.

Perhaps some food for thought here even if the tone of the post is a bit on the ranting side. No need to get so worked up over some friendly discussion.

 

[UCF Alum]

If SPS requires nutrients explain why I have tanks with *zero* live stock in them, zero nitrate / zero phosphate / zero anything else and acropora are thriving? Explain my friends running large propagation tanks and have *zero* live stock in them with zero nutrient levels and have glorious SPS growth?

Captive tanks are not the ocean. What happens in a captive tank where you have fish and hence dumping nutrients in the water is you have multiple competiting biologies in play all of which would be in check in the ocean with very low nutrient levels. However, in a captive tank with fish those bacteria and algae colonies suddenly have 1000x the nutrient levels to feed on, they pull other nutrients out of the water that SPS require, and start turning on their bio combat engines. Now your SPS are looking bad and we're blaming the low N03 / P04 levels as the culprit. The low N03 / P04 are just the symptom.

This is why one guy has high N03 / P04 levels and no issues while another has zero N03 / P04 and is tank has nuisance algae an inch deep.

I recently pulled two birdnests colonies out of my high nutrient softie garden that had stopped growing. They were perfectly healthy with good PE, but their growth nodes had disappeared over the past month. I put them in a spanking fresh tank with no inhabitants other than other Acros and some Acans, and within 48 hours I saw growth nodes returning and are now back on full blast growth. N03 / P04 are not the issue. It's what also eating those nutrients along with other nutrients and competing with SPS.

Also, we need to stop granting other LPS like euphyllia a not guilty verdict because we think it looks cool. Got a basketball sized hammer coral in your tank that's growing like crazy while your SPS have dying tips and looking weak? Connect the dots.

@primoleo came to the board with a problem and we’re all trying to brainstorm as to what exactly his problem is since his 2.5ppm no3 and .01 po4 doesn’t seem to be the right mix for his tank. Instead of ranting on what you’re doing right, offer some insight on what he’s doing wrong.

 

[ReefGeezer]

@primoleo came to the board with a problem and we’re all trying to brainstorm as to what exactly his problem is since his 2.5ppm no3 and .01 po4 doesn’t seem to be the right mix for his tank. Instead of ranting on what you’re doing right, offer some insight on what he’s doing wrong.

I agree, but it seems "wrong" might not be the best description. Even in the extreme, both seem to work. Let's stipulate that there is anecdotal evidence that SPS corals can do well regardless of the inorganic no3/po4 levels reported. Where does that leave us?

Could it really be FOOD that is the issue? Yes nitrogen compounds, but also dissolved/suspended organic compounds too. Sometimes we (meaning me) just plain eliminate too much in an effort to control no3 & po4. Is it possible that in allowing nutrients to rise we are also maintaining higher organic levels that are beneficial to the corals? Is it also possible that we inappropriately attribute the benefit to the rising no3/po4 instead of the increased food availability?

 

[Ashish Patel]

Young, 4 months old.
Small, 25 gallons.
Some for a couple of weeks, some for a month or more.
No, similar parameters.

Mg I know is little low, but I wouldn't blame it for what's going on.
Nutrients are too low for me as well, that's why Im feeding a lot now.
I have very few go algae growing in display, few green hairy in the fuge, compared to zero I used to have.

I had low nutrients at 4 months and had to turn of my skimmer every other day, which helped. I dose nitrates too fast which caused some bleaching - trying to bring it from 0 to 3PPM in 4 days is too fast. If you dose it having it at 1PPM is plenty. Let the tank establish and try reducing photoperiod or intensity, try cutting the skimmer and feeding slighty more. Low nutrients in a new tank is breeding grounds for Dinos and you may run into some hair algae problems but is just free fish food

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

If SPS requires nutrients explain why I have tanks with *zero* live stock in them, zero nitrate / zero phosphate / zero anything else and acropora are thriving? Explain my friends running large propagation tanks and have *zero* live stock in them with zero nutrient levels and have glorious SPS growth?

Captive tanks are not the ocean. What happens in a captive tank where you have fish and hence dumping nutrients in the water is you have multiple competiting biologies in play all of which would be in check in the ocean with very low nutrient levels. However, in a captive tank with fish those bacteria and algae colonies suddenly have 1000x the nutrient levels to feed on, they pull other nutrients out of the water that SPS require, and start turning on their bio combat engines. Now your SPS are looking bad and we're blaming the low N03 / P04 levels as the culprit. The low N03 / P04 are just the symptom.

This is why one guy has high N03 / P04 levels and no issues while another has zero N03 / P04 and is tank has nuisance algae an inch deep.

I recently pulled two birdnests colonies out of my high nutrient softie garden that had stopped growing. They were perfectly healthy with good PE, but their growth nodes had disappeared over the past month. I put them in a spanking fresh tank with no inhabitants other than other Acros and some Acans, and within 48 hours I saw growth nodes returning and are now back on full blast growth. N03 / P04 are not the issue. It's what also eating those nutrients along with other nutrients and competing with SPS.

Also, we need to stop granting other LPS like euphyllia a not guilty verdict because we think it looks cool. Got a basketball sized hammer coral in your tank that's growing like crazy while your SPS have dying tips and looking weak? Connect the dots.

This is very interesting. So youre not providing any coral foods? Just water and light?