Low Ph - How concerned should I be?

[thatmanMIKEson]

I was watching a BRS video on the effect of low (7.8) pH on corals and they mentioned various peer reviewed papers that describe the effect of acidification on coral growth and survival. It seems that many are underestimaring the severity of the problem. If you get 7.6 pH in summer I think you will have serious issues in winter (assuming you live in the northern hemisphere)

Are they the ones that sell c02 media?

 

[KonradTO]

Are they the ones that sell c02 media?

Well actually they suggest to buy cheap soda lime. I did not check the cited literature but I will do soon.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Well actually they suggest to buy cheap soda lime. I did not check the cited literature but I will do soon.

Soda Lime is CO2 media

 

[KonradTO]

Soda Lime is CO2 media

Yes and they do not refer to the one they sell in particular. Also first choice suggestion was increasing air exchange in the house. I would not be that skeptical about the effect of acidity on something like calcium carbonate.. I mean a lot of bleaching happening right now in coral reefs was attributed to the combination of high temps+ low (8.1) pH. Imagine 7.6

 

[gbroadbridge]

Yes and they do not refer to the one they sell in particular. Also first choice suggestion was increasing air exchange in the house. I would not be that skeptical about the effect of acidity on something like calcium carbonate.. I mean a lot of bleaching happening right now in coral reefs was attributed to the combination of high temps+ low (8.1) pH. Imagine 7.6

A pH of 8.1 is not 'low'.

7.7 is becoming more problematic.

If you haven't read it, this article provides a good discussion.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

 

[R33fDaddy]

First of all, you should never ever think that a result on a brand new test you haven't done before is grounds for a big change to your tank. If your tank looks good and has for a while and then you start testing something and the result looks weird, your first thought should not be "I better fix this" because you can simply have error in testing and you don't want to make drastic changes to solve problems that aren't even problems.

I calibrated the prob twice and got the same results. I'm going to get an API Ph test kit and I'll run to World Wide to get more calibration fluid to test again. Even if the probe is off slightly that probably still put me below 8.0 (just a guess for now). I hope it's the probe cause I don't want to add any more equipment to the tank (cause the more equipment you have the greater chance for something to go wrong).

 

[gbroadbridge]

I calibrated the prob twice and got the same results. I'm going to get an API Ph test kit and I'll run to World Wide to get more calibration fluid to test again. Even if the probe is off slightly that probably still put me below 8.0 (just a guess for now). I hope it's the probe cause I don't want to add any more equipment to the tank (cause the more equipment you have the greater chance for something to go wrong).

My tank runs 7.8 to 8.1 without a CO2 scrubber and it is not a problem at all. The coral are all happy and growing.

 

[KonradTO]

A pH of 8.1 is not 'low'.

7.7 is becoming more problematic.

If you haven't read it, this article provides a good discussion.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

"CO2 dosing led to dramatic reductions in daily productivity (as hourly rates of photosynthesis minus respiration integrated over the day) of the CCA. At low temperature, intermediate-CO2 dosing (pH 7.85–7.95) resulted in a 50% reduction in productivity relative to the control. High-CO2 dosing (pH 7.60–7.70) led to a further reduction in productivity to near zero."
This is just with digging 5 minutes in the literature available.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0804478105#F1

 

[KonradTO]

A pH of 8.1 is not 'low'.

7.7 is becoming more problematic.

If you haven't read it, this article provides a good discussion.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

Obviously I am sure there are other factors involved like PAR and temperatures so probably pH alone is not an issue I suppose. But if corals are already stressed for extreme temp in summer and maybe there was some small alk swing they would risk more if pH was lower.
I am anything but a marine biologist so I am not entirely sure my idea makes sense but I think that keeping the pH a bit higher can only bring benefits. I don't know if it is a factor in my tank but I always struggled to keep corals and I have a pH of 7.8 in summer 7.6 in winter. I want to try and increase it with a bit and see the effect (honestly I also had a lot of instability in my tank so it could totally be a combo)

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I calibrated the prob twice and got the same results. I'm going to get an API Ph test kit and I'll run to World Wide to get more calibration fluid to test again. Even if the probe is off slightly that probably still put me below 8.0 (just a guess for now). I hope it's the probe cause I don't want to add any more equipment to the tank (cause the more equipment you have the greater chance for something to go wrong).

Did you see my post because I never got a response. Did you try this ?

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I calibrated the prob twice and got the same results. I'm going to get an API Ph test kit and I'll run to World Wide to get more calibration fluid to test again. Even if the probe is off slightly that probably still put me below 8.0 (just a guess for now). I hope it's the probe cause I don't want to add any more equipment to the tank (cause the more equipment you have the greater chance for something to go wrong).

The reason I say this and I’m gonna repeat myself because I still have not gotten a response but the fact that you calibrated your probe twice and ended up with the same results tells me that it did not do a calibration I have never in the 10 years of having a Apex did a calibration and have the value be the same after the calibration so I’ll move on after this post

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I got the Apex EL last weekend and via the Ph Probe I discovered that I'm hovering around 7.4 - 7.6. How bad is this? Do I need to go get a CO2 Scrubber tomorrow? Lol

Alkalinity 12, Calcium 490ppm, Magnesium 1410, Nitrates 6ppm, Phosphates 0.03ppm

Also to have 7. 4 to 7.6 is almost impossible with pH values that low your chorals would be melting slowly as if they were in a calcium reactor

 

[R33fDaddy]

The reason I say this and I’m gonna repeat myself because I still have not gotten a response but the fact that you calibrated your probe twice and ended up with the same results tells me that it did not do a calibration I have never in the 10 years of having a Apex did a calibration and have the value be the same after the calibration so I’ll move on after this post

I have access to another PH Probe. I'll grab that one and he see what it's reading. Here's a screenshot of what I'm seeing.

 

[R33fDaddy]

Could PH be the reason I'm struggling with Gonipora, Favia and Acans? All my other parameters are spot on. Other Corals are doing better and for transparency here is some photos.

Also a screenshot of my Apex dashboard.

 

[R33fDaddy]

The reason I say this and I’m gonna repeat myself because I still have not gotten a response but the fact that you calibrated your probe twice and ended up with the same results tells me that it did not do a calibration I have never in the 10 years of having a Apex did a calibration and have the value be the same after the calibration so I’ll move on after this post

Don't give up on me lol

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

"CO2 dosing led to dramatic reductions in daily productivity (as hourly rates of photosynthesis minus respiration integrated over the day) of the CCA. At low temperature, intermediate-CO2 dosing (pH 7.85–7.95) resulted in a 50% reduction in productivity relative to the control. High-CO2 dosing (pH 7.60–7.70) led to a further reduction in productivity to near zero."
This is just with digging 5 minutes in the literature available.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0804478105#F1

Does that make sense? What are the values for A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Could PH be the reason I'm struggling with Gonipora, Favia and Acans? All my other parameters are spot on. Other Corals are doing better and for transparency here is some photos.

Also a screenshot of my Apex dashboard.

Do you have a full tank shot, I see what could be algae issues along with little calcarious algae. Do you have a whole system picture in order to get a better idea of the set up....

 

[R33fDaddy]

Do you have a full tank shot, I see what could be algae issues along with little calcarious algae. Do you have a whole system picture in order to get a better idea of the set up....

I'll take some photos in a few. What is Calcarious Algae? Is that different from Coralline?

I use to have algae issues awhile ago but not anymore.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I'll take some photos in a few. What is Calcarious Algae? Is that different from Coralline?

I use to have algae issues awhile ago but not anymore.

Yes I was trying to sound smart coraline algaes. Hard to tell is it packed full of coraline algae? If it is, the you can look at other reasons for corals not doing good, other than parameters..

I got the Apex EL last weekend and via the Ph Probe I discovered that I'm hovering around 7.4 - 7.6. How bad is this? Do I need to go get a CO2 Scrubber tomorrow? Lol

Alkalinity 12, Calcium 490ppm, Magnesium 1410, Nitrates 6ppm, Phosphates 0.03ppm

To me in my opinion, I think that alk number is high I have much better luck with a lower value like around 8, lately I have Been just under 8 with great results, and some may say different but I believe your n03 and p04 are high. I use brightwell's recommended values of a n03 of 3ppm and p04 value of .02ppm this has a lower value to help ward off algaes. I'd say calcium is on the high side also I stick to 420ppm.

What salt mix are you running and what are you dosing, plus the full tank shot?

 

[R33fDaddy]

So I went to World Wide Corals and got a PH Test kit and it looks to be reading 8.0 - 8.15. What gives? Now I don't know what to trust. This Neptune thing costed $500+, should I trust the & $24 test kit?