Low Phosphate but High Nitrate?

[JIsBusyReefing]

Let me just say the API nitrate kit is junk! A while back I kept dosing and dosing nitrates because the API kit kept saying 0ppm. I couldn’t figure it out. Then I ordered a Nyos nitrate kit. Highly recommended!!! And come to find out, my nitrates were in fact much higher than 0ppm. More like 12 ppm. The Nyos kit is super easy to use and is pretty dang accurate! Especially in the lower ranges. I’d recommend this kit to anyone. And I’d definitely invest in the Hanna ULR. I personally like the H1-736 phosphorus checker. You do have to convert PPB to ppm, but that’s no biggie. I’d be curious to see what another kit says about your No3.

I'll definitely keep this in mind. My LFS tests with their kits as well and they're showing similar results as what I'm seeing, so I know I do have higher nitrates.

 

[Reef.]

I would feed more, water change the nitrates away then look at it again when you have some breathing room.

Salifert nitrate is as good as nyos but loads cheaper, test your fresh salt mix for nitrates too.

If your PO4 is zero you don’t want to be keeping it there by no feeding.

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

I would feed more, water change the nitrates away then look at it again when you have some breathing room.

Salifert nitrate is as good as nyos but loads cheaper, test your fresh salt mix for nitrates too.

If your PO4 is zero you don’t want to be keeping it there by no feeding.

I tested the RODI water in using. No nitrates. It's purely occurring in the tank. I love Salifert as well. I use them for magnesium and it's never steered me wrong. Perhaps I should switch to their entire kit.

 

[Reef.]

I tested the RODI water in using. No nitrates. It's purely occurring in the tank. I love Salifert as well. I use them for magnesium and it's never steered me wrong. Perhaps I should switch to their entire kit.

Po4 salifert is good but only up to .1 if you want to know lower than that it’s not great but all the rest are worth getting.

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

Po4 salifert is good but only up to .1 if you want to know lower than that it’s not great but all the rest are worth getting.

Noted

 

[Joeg]

I'll put a vote in for the Hanna checkers. I have 3 of them (ALK, CA, and PO4 ulr) and after you get a routine down it's possible to plow through all 3 tests quickly. I line them up, set up the syringes, cut open the packets and pull a small glass of tank water. Once you lay out a process and do it a few times it goes fast and I like knowing where I am below .1 for PO4.

 

[Greg P]

I beat diatoms (your brown rusty stuff) by balancing my N&P
I'd suggest you dose P. As mentioned, it'll help lower your N and rid you of the diatoms.

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

I beat diatoms (your brown rusty stuff) by balancing my N&P
I'd suggest you dose P. As mentioned, it'll help lower your N and rid you of the diatoms.

I was just thinking about that actually. I see a lot of people recommend Seachem's phosphorus. Someone recommended to me that I dose it, feed a little more, and carbon dose or get a pellet reactor.

 

[Greg P]

I was just thinking about that actually. I see a lot of people recommend Seachem's phosphorus. Someone recommended to me that I dose it, feed a little more, and carbon dose or get a pellet reactor.

Do only 1 thing at a time.
I'd start with a couple weeks of P dosing/N&P testing to see how it affects both the diatoms and N levels

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

Do only 1 thing at a time.
I'd start with a couple weeks of P dosing/N&P testing to see how it affects both the diatoms and N levels

Of course. I'm gonna start out with the increased feeding. I noticed the food I was using has absolutely no phosphorus in it. I'm switching to foods that do. I'll retest in a week with a more sensitive phosphate kit and see where I'm sitting. If still low, I'll dose phosphorus. If that's leveled out but my nitrate is still high after about a month, I'll get a pellet reactor or carbon dose to get the nitrate down while dosing phosphorus.

 

[Reef.]

Of course. I'm gonna start out with the increased feeding. I noticed the food I was using has absolutely no phosphorus in it. I'm switching to foods that do. I'll retest in a week with a more sensitive phosphate kit and see where I'm sitting. If still low, I'll dose phosphorus. If that's leveled out but my nitrate is still high after about a month, I'll get a pellet reactor or carbon dose to get the nitrate down while dosing phosphorus.

I would make sure it is actually zero before dosing, if you have the tiniest bit that’s plenty.

Try frozen food for the fish, coral food has a fair bit of phosphate such as reef roids and reef chilli.

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

I would make sure it is actually zero before dosing, if you have the tiniest bit that’s plenty.

Try frozen food for the fish, coral food has a fair bit of phosphate such as reef roids and reef chilli.

I got some mysis shrimp and hikari seaweed for the fish and hikari coralific for the corals. All of it has phosphorus in it.

 

[Bruce60]

Quite frankly, I think your major issue is the rapidity with which you have added fish and corals to your relatively new tank. I hope that I am wrong, but I fear you are in for a bumpy ride ahead with a series of algae blooms. Your livestock are adding a significant amount of nitrogen into the system through waste that is becoming nitrate, but without the mature bacterial life to assist in consuming the nitrates. I suspect additional phosphate will come too.

You mentioned that you have 3 socks in your filtration. How frequently do you change them? They can become nitrate factories if you leave them in too long or insufficiently clean them. Given your nitrate level I would suggest changing them every 3 days, inverting them and thoroughly rinsing off as much as possible. Then, you might consider running them through your washing machine with just bleach, but then soak them in water with a bunch of dechlorinator before using.

Your Skimmer (Reef Octopus Classic 150 INT) is rated for your size tank, but just barely. Most people get a skimmer that is rated for a larger volume than their tank for a margin. From my previous experiences I went with a skimmer rated for 250-400 gallons for my 150 display (more like 135 actual) plus another 40 in the sump and fuge. What type of skimmate are you getting (thick, thin, translucent)? When you have a skimmer that does not have excess capacity for your volume, it is important to make sure it is properly tuned to maximize export of the excess nutrients.

And you mentioned your fuge. How often are you harvesting the caulerpa? Removing portions of it are the only way to remove the nutrients they have absorbed. I would also be careful with the caulerpa as it can invade into your display and be a nuisance to get rid of. Many other reefers prefer chaeto. I am currently using a Red Gracilaria in my fuge.

It is going to take time and effort to restore your tank to more typical parameters. Water changes alone will not do it. A multi pronged approach with many of the suggestions throughout this thread will work...HOWEVER, it will take time...enough time that you may lost patience (I have on more than one occasion). What I can tell you is that if you stay the course, you can resolve the situation without having to break down and start over. Best of luck!!

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

Quite frankly, I think your major issue is the rapidity with which you have added fish and corals to your relatively new tank. I hope that I am wrong, but I fear you are in for a bumpy ride ahead with a series of algae blooms. Your livestock are adding a significant amount of nitrogen into the system through waste that is becoming nitrate, but without the mature bacterial life to assist in consuming the nitrates. I suspect additional phosphate will come too.

You mentioned that you have 3 socks in your filtration. How frequently do you change them? They can become nitrate factories if you leave them in too long or insufficiently clean them. Given your nitrate level I would suggest changing them every 3 days, inverting them and thoroughly rinsing off as much as possible. Then, you might consider running them through your washing machine with just bleach, but then soak them in water with a bunch of dechlorinator before using.

Your Skimmer (Reef Octopus Classic 150 INT) is rated for your size tank, but just barely. Most people get a skimmer that is rated for a larger volume than their tank for a margin. From my previous experiences I went with a skimmer rated for 250-400 gallons for my 150 display (more like 135 actual) plus another 40 in the sump and fuge. What type of skimmate are you getting (thick, thin, translucent)? When you have a skimmer that does not have excess capacity for your volume, it is important to make sure it is properly tuned to maximize export of the excess nutrients.

And you mentioned your fuge. How often are you harvesting the caulerpa? Removing portions of it are the only way to remove the nutrients they have absorbed. I would also be careful with the caulerpa as it can invade into your display and be a nuisance to get rid of. Many other reefers prefer chaeto. I am currently using a Red Gracilaria in my fuge.

It is going to take time and effort to restore your tank to more typical parameters. Water changes alone will not do it. A multi pronged approach with many of the suggestions throughout this thread will work...HOWEVER, it will take time...enough time that you may lost patience (I have on more than one occasion). What I can tell you is that if you stay the course, you can resolve the situation without having to break down and start over. Best of luck!!

The socks are cleaned out in the wash twice a week

Well, I set the skimmer to level out at the bottom of the cup (not the stem) and I usually get thick and chunky green skimate that I have to empty out twice a week. That's more of a dry skim. If I let it go halfway up the cup, I get more of a wet skim and the skimate is a little clearer that has to be emptied out 3-4 times a week.

I haven't harvested yet because I got a small ball initially and it's just about finally to the point where it needs to be. I started out with chaeto after the cycle and I could not get it to grow at all. That's why I went with caulerpa. Marc Levenson had the same problem with chaeto and too battles high nitrates. He made the recommendation to me and I bought it a couple of months ago.

I am not exiting this hobby. I assure you. Lol

 

[chadfish]

How is your tank situation going? I have the same issue at the moment. I’m surprised nobody has suggested that your rust colored algae is dinoflagellates. It fits the description of covering everything that is lit and going away at night. Also, that stuff sucks up nutrients like crazy. It will bottom you out. And if you’re like me, you can get into high (10-20ppm) nitrates and low (zero) phosphates.

Personally, I blame the chaeto. Like you, I had it lit 12/7. It grew like crazy until all the nitrates were gone, then the dinos started.

Get a UV. Get a microscope and figure out what kind it is, then filter at 50 microns or less and crank the UV, no light, for as long as you can. Then low light and dose massive amounts of phytoplankton.

mans look into vibrant or microbacter clean. Use with caution.

 

[JIsBusyReefing]

How is your tank situation going? I have the same issue at the moment. I’m surprised nobody has suggested that your rust colored algae is dinoflagellates. It fits the description of covering everything that is lit and going away at night. Also, that stuff sucks up nutrients like crazy. It will bottom you out. And if you’re like me, you can get into high (10-20ppm) nitrates and low (zero) phosphates.

Personally, I blame the chaeto. Like you, I had it lit 12/7. It grew like crazy until all the nitrates were gone, then the dinos started.

Get a UV. Get a microscope and figure out what kind it is, then filter at 50 microns or less and crank the UV, no light, for as long as you can. Then low light and dose massive amounts of phytoplankton.

mans look into vibrant or microbacter clean. Use with caution.

Still dealing with it. I added a biopellet reactor and the thing has made no difference at all in nitrate levels since setting it up 6 weeks ago. I used Phosgaurd to clear up what appeared to be diatoms/brown algae because I thought maybe it was my RODI system leaking silicates and it worked. It all cleared up really nice. And then it came back recently after I removed the phosgaurd. LOL!