Lowering Nitrates

[certain_code]

My setup and params:
80 Gallon DT
~20 Gallon Sump
~60 lbs rock
4 Fish
~15 frags
Bubble Mangus Curve 5
2 Jebao RW-8s

Params:
Cal: 415ppm
Alk: 8.7dKH
Mag: 1500ppm
Nitrate: 25ppm

More Details @ Aquatic Log

Overall visual health: Things look pretty good but my zoas that survived being out of water for nearly 5 days 2 years ago are closing up. Overall colors are not great.

The Problem:
I cannot get Nitrates down at all. I have attempted to start Vodka following Randy's guide (strictly following it) but corals after about 5 days began to show die-off pretty aggressively so I stopped immediately. I have done about a 30% water change over the course of the month and most of my other params have been steady.

So, thoughts? I don't have a ton of space for water storage so larger water changes are challenging. Thus I tried vodka dosing. Not sure if the Curve 5 was not taking out the "bad-stuff" fast enough and that is why coral was not doing well or not. I feel like I am running out of options now though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How much were you dosing? I don't have a vodka article so I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to.

How are you measuring nitrate and are you measuring phosphate?

Were the zoos closing before the vodka, or only after?

 

[certain_code]

Haha, sorry Randy, seems like my default go-to is to assume any lengthly article about the science behind a reef tank is coming from you at this point. Anyways, the article I read about 10 times and then followed closely was this ReefKeeping article.

I was using 100 proof Vodka (pure, not flavored) and have ~100gallons total water volume. Following that I started with 0.3ml, then 0.6ml, and 1.0ml spread out as outlined. By the time I got to the 1.0ml mark pretty much all my coral were closed up daily, and my bridsnest frag completely had died, seemingly overnight.

Zoos were closing only after the vodka and I have since done 2, 10 gallon water changes to hope to help them a bit but seems like it is not helping at all.

Phosphate is being measured via Hanna ULR Phosphorus (and then converting to PO4) and Nitrate is measured via a Salifert kit.

Thanks

 

[certain_code]

As a side note. I am trying to get to the point where I feel comfortable keeping SPS which is my main reason behind wanting to get Nitrates down a bit. I know it may take some time but the birdsnest was doing well before trying Vodka dosing. My other params are getting more and more stable over the last few months so I feel like this is the last thing before I feel confident enough to try some beginner SPS.

 

[certain_code]

Any thoughts?

 

[bobman]

yes go back and look at chart on the table for 100 proof vodka. By that table you have a 80 gal tank and 20 sump. Assuming no one keeps there sump full you may have 90 gallons now calculate rock displacement and I would think you are somewhere in the 75 gallon area. By that calculation you should not have been to 1 ml of 100 proof vodka till week 3 not 5 days. You are dosing on 100 gallon when in fact you dont actually have 100 gallons. I dose 80 proof and can say those charts are on the conservative side and you can go a little more aggressive but I dont recommend it. Also in 5 days of dosing you will not see much effects on skimmer production nor will you see much effect on nitrates it honestly takes a couple weeks before you start seeing a difference. But if you go to fast you will see ticked off corals.

On a side note 25ppm of nitrate is not that high how are you testing for nitrates?

 

[certain_code]

yes go back and look at chart on the table for 100 proof vodka. By that table you have a 80 gal tank and 20 sump. Assuming no one keeps there sump full you may have 90 gallons now calculate rock displacement and I would think you are somewhere in the 75 gallon area. By that calculation you should not have been to 1 ml of 100 proof vodka till week 3 not 5 days. You are dosing on 100 gallon when in fact you dont actually have 100 gallons. I dose 80 proof and can say those charts are on the conservative side and you can go a little more aggressive but I dont recommend it. Also in 5 days of dosing you will not see much effects on skimmer production nor will you see much effect on nitrates it honestly takes a couple weeks before you start seeing a difference. But if you go to fast you will see ****** off corals.

On a side note 25ppm of nitrate is not that high how are you testing for nitrates?

Total sump volume is 32 gallons, I am running it close to full so I am probably closer to 90 gallons and typically rounding up to 100 with dosing anything else never has had adverse effects. But that's a good point.

I am testing via a Salifert kit.

Thanks

 

[bobman]

I agree if you are closer to 90 gallons then I dont see rounding up to 100 really being an issue. But aftre 5 days you still should have been dosing only .6 ml. I have never used 100 proof vodka though. But come to think of it when I first started vodka dosing on this tank I seen my zoas close up for a few days. You might be experiencing the same if so I would not worry to much as after a few days they opened up and all are happy and healthy.

 

[Diesel]

I would take a second opinion on your N03 test.
If the tanks looks great I wouldn't chase that # as much.
Randy ask for your Po4 but you never told us your test results.

 

[ahammer]

Try some chaeto or purigen

 

[certain_code]

I would take a second opinion on your N03 test.
If the tanks looks great I wouldn't chase that # as much.
Randy ask for your Po4 but you never told us your test results.

Need to test again but PO4 on Hanna was low. Will retest and post results soon.

Try some chaeto or purigen

Tried cheato a while ago but it all just died off under the LED bulb that people say has given them great cheato growth. Never looked into it again because of this.

 

[certain_code]

Po4 is at .09ppm as measured by the ULR Hanna checker

 

[Diesel]

Po4 is at .09ppm as measured by the ULR Hanna checker

That said^^^^^ I have a second guess on your No3 test.

 

[bobman]

I agree I would also get a second opinion on the NO3. Might explain why it isnt coming down is because its much higher than 25ppm.

 

[certain_code]

That said^^^^^ I have a second guess on your No3 test.

I agree I would also get a second opinion on the NO3. Might explain why it isnt coming down is because its much higher than 25ppm.

Are you both thinking no3 is actually higher then this then? To me it seems like it could be between 25 and 50 but it's certainly closer to the 25ppm side. Any other reliable way of testing it brand wise? My salifert kit is a month old.

 

[Diesel]

Being a month old means nothing.
By knowing where you are close to 100% accurate I suggest a Triton Test.
It will tell you close to everything that you need to know about your water.
High metals will also indicate closed polyps.

 

[bobman]

Salfert is a good test kits but IMO leaves a lot of room for guessing. I use them though and when something seems off I will take water to the lfs for a second opinion. Does not mean your test kits is bad but it might be how you are reading it or a botched test (or bad test kit). Getting a second opinion helps you figure out if you are chasing a ghost or if the situation is worse than you thought.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

One wouldn't expect much nitrate drop in this short time, but the zoas problem may not be related either to the dosing or to the nitrate. Are they clearly dying, or just closed up?

That said, if the problems only started exactly when the vodka was being dosed, I'd definitely stop. One can theoretically get problem bacteria driven by organic carbon dosing and that may be your issue.

Assuming "no dosing" gets things back to normal after a while, I'd either switch to vinegar, or to another method entirely (such as macroaglae, etc.).

 

[AnOldSaltyDog]

When carbon dosing one must keep in mind that there is roughly a 16:1 / nitrate: phosphate reduction. Basically, when your phosphate level drops to undetectable levels your nitrates will not drop anymore. To reduce nitrates further one would either have to look for a chemical route to drop it or do some water changes. Also sometimes nitrate and phosphates in live rock can leech back into the water.

 

[potatocouch]

Overall visual health: Things look pretty good but my zoas that survived being out of water for nearly 5 days 2 years ago are closing up. Overall colors are not great.

I have the same No3 problem with you but higher ... mine sitting at 40 ppm but keeping zoanthids have never been an issue, so as what Randy was saying, the culprit may not be No3.