I'm having a cynao problem. I test for nitrates and they are undetectable. I have not tested for phosphates, but I assume they are higher than should be and that's the reason for the cynao. I want to vodka dose and am looking for some tips
Lowering Phosphates - Vodka Dosing
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LIreefguy
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Vodka dosing is used to help lower nitrates. If you truly have zero nitrates( correct testing ). Then vodka dosing won’t help in this case and actually might make it worse
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I agree that organic carbon dosing is not especially effective at reducing phosphate, not is it generally especially suitable for dealing with cyano. For cyano, I’d increase manual removal, increase flow, and export more organic matter (skimming and other ways).
codytbuckner
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I've been looking at multiple options for exporting nutrients. If vodka dosing won't help with cyano, I'm thinking about building a alage scrubber.
wattson
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dose No3 and watch PO4 fall lower,,keep in mind how much PO4 your putting into your tank daily per the foods you feed..
skip the vodka/vinegar dosing for now..thats another topic but try No3 dosing first and food Po4 control for now..
skip the vodka/vinegar dosing for now..thats another topic but try No3 dosing first and food Po4 control for now..
codytbuckner
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How low should I be keeping Nitrates after I start dosing?
LIreefguy
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Before You dose nitrates I would look into Msybe Gfo to lower Phosphates
But to be honest you haven’t even texted them first so I would test them first
To dose nitrates to lower Phosphates when you don’t even know what they are is a little premature
Also I would only dose nitrates in a very heavily dense tank with a ton of corals growing
Also how are your corals doing
If they are doing great and growing I would hesitated to dose anything or do anything big. Let the health of your tank dictate your reaction
Little cryno in the corner of your tank isn’t grounds for too much reaction
But to be honest you haven’t even texted them first so I would test them first
To dose nitrates to lower Phosphates when you don’t even know what they are is a little premature
Also I would only dose nitrates in a very heavily dense tank with a ton of corals growing
Also how are your corals doing
If they are doing great and growing I would hesitated to dose anything or do anything big. Let the health of your tank dictate your reaction
Little cryno in the corner of your tank isn’t grounds for too much reaction
codytbuckner
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I have mostly SPS. It'll end up being a mixed tank though
codytbuckner
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Corals are doing good. I am testing phosphates today and post the results. At the moment I have an undetectable amount of nitrates. That's not really what I want. Dosing sounds good if its feeding corals and lowering phosphates. It's not just a little cyano. It's pretty much my entire sand bed and I have to constantly clean the glass of it
With nitrates at 4ppm they are perfect and with PO4 at 0.06ppm they are only slightly elavated in comparison to your nitrates. 99% of people wouldn't get a cyano outbreak at these levels. Given that it is only growing on your sandbed and not your liferock it is either a lack of competition or excess PO4 leaching from your sand. How old is this sand (when was it added) and was it possibly used in a previous aquarium?
Dosing vinegar and nitrates will increase bacterial competition (especially when combined with the removal of the cyano at/around midpoint of your lightcycle and adding bacteria to seed your sandbed/liferock). GFO is more effective though in taking care of leaching PO4.
Dosing vinegar and nitrates will increase bacterial competition (especially when combined with the removal of the cyano at/around midpoint of your lightcycle and adding bacteria to seed your sandbed/liferock). GFO is more effective though in taking care of leaching PO4.
codytbuckner
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This sand was brand new live sand. It and the tank were brand new. If I dose nitrates, how do I export the extra nitrates since it'll push me past where I want to be? The cyano is starting to cover other things to include rock and equipment
KrisReef
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Do you have any hermit crabs or nassarius snails, or sand sifting starfish to stir up that sandbed?
What kind of lights do you have? Photoperiod?
Chemiclean is good to knock this back, but until the tank gets a bit older and the other microbes settle in I think that the problem may continue. Don't lose heart, most of us have had to deal with this along the way.
What kind of lights do you have? Photoperiod?
Chemiclean is good to knock this back, but until the tank gets a bit older and the other microbes settle in I think that the problem may continue. Don't lose heart, most of us have had to deal with this along the way.
codytbuckner
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I have a ton of blue legged hermit crabs, nassarius snails, cerith snails, turbo snails. I run aquamai lights for 12 hours a day. I tried running them less and more blue, but it didnt really help.
Everything needs C (Carbon), N (Nitrogen) and P (Phosphorus), but not all in the same amount or form. Cyanos can create their own C through photosynthesis so they have a competitive edge over bacteria they compete with for nutrients and living space because these don't produce their own C. They are also less dependent on nitrates as source of nitrogen than most of the bacteria they compete with so they tend to show up in systems richer in PO4 and or poorer in nitrates that are also low in carbon.
Dosing carbon (of the right kind) will help increase competition from other bacteria but will also decrease PO4 and even more so NO3. With NO3 at 4ppm and PO4 at 0.06ppm you will run out of NO3 that these bacteria need even more than the cyanos than that you run out of PO4. So by dosing vinegar these bacteria will no longer be starved on Carbon but will get shorter and shorter on NO3 untill they starve again, yet the cyanos won't care as they stll make there own C and have other means to get N besides nitrates. So to prevent N starvation kicking in you dose nitrates for these bacteria as well.
'My' formula under is keep nitrates at least at 100 times your PO4 levels (so with 0.06ppm PO4 a NO3 of 6 ppm is ' required') with sufficient carbon and cyanos don't stand a chance under normal circumstances. At that point PO4 becomes the determining factor of how your corals color up and how mich effort you have to spend at keeping things balanced (lower PO4 is lighter/brighter/Zeolike colors but also harder to keep balanced, higher PO4 is darker colors but easier to keep balanced). Under normal circumstances means a healthy bacterial population and since you see cyanos also spreading to your liferock, most likely this is not or at least no longer the case.
The best solution would therefore be to create the best environment for other bacteria. Start dosing vinegar to add Carbon, start dosing nitrates to get this up and balanced with PO4 and/or start using GFO to bring PO4 down to get this balanced with nitrates (tweak this to get as close as you can to the 100:1 ratio but a somewhat higher nitrate is preferable over a somewhat higher phosphate in the case of cyano), add bacteria to seed sand and rock and sifon cyanos of during midpoint of your lightcycle.
Be patient but over time the other bacteria will kick in and win the fight.
codytbuckner
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What is the difference in dosing vinegar versus vodka?
Dkeller_nc
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I'm going to slightly disagree with MabuyaQ here in that I'd urge caution with respect to carbon dosing. Many, many reefers have noticed an increase in cyano growth when first starting dosing with vinegar, vodka or biopellets. It's unclear why this might be, because MabuyaQ is correct that cyanobacteria are photosynthetic and therefore can make their own sugars. Nevertheless, the observation is consistent enough that I'd have a hard time dismissing it.
I will agree that it's helpful to have bacteria, corals and other life in the tank out-compete cyano for nutrients, trace elements, and the like. And his (or her) advice is probably sound for an established reef tank. But brand-new tanks generally always go through waves of "the uglies", from cyano to diatoms and/or true algal growth. After several months to a year, these problems typically disappear on their own as long as the tank's being well-maintained otherwise. And because nothing's in a steady-state in a new tank, you may have all sorts of things going on that could contribute to cyano growth - from nutrients leaching from (new) sand, to a bacterial base that's just getting built-up and sorting itself out as to the dominant species.
If the cyano's really bugging you, you can consider a 3-day tank blackout; it's really helped other reefers, though it must generally be absolute - lights off and black plastic taped around the tank sides. Having said that, it's unclear on a new tank whether the cyano would simply come back after the lights come back on. Similarly, chemiclean is typically very effective in the short term because it's largely erythromycin, and cyanobacteria is extremely sensitive to erythro. However, this may simply be "kicking the can down the road" because one the erythro is removed by skimming, water changes or carbon filtration, the conditions that allowed the cyano bloom may still be there.
I will agree that it's helpful to have bacteria, corals and other life in the tank out-compete cyano for nutrients, trace elements, and the like. And his (or her) advice is probably sound for an established reef tank. But brand-new tanks generally always go through waves of "the uglies", from cyano to diatoms and/or true algal growth. After several months to a year, these problems typically disappear on their own as long as the tank's being well-maintained otherwise. And because nothing's in a steady-state in a new tank, you may have all sorts of things going on that could contribute to cyano growth - from nutrients leaching from (new) sand, to a bacterial base that's just getting built-up and sorting itself out as to the dominant species.
If the cyano's really bugging you, you can consider a 3-day tank blackout; it's really helped other reefers, though it must generally be absolute - lights off and black plastic taped around the tank sides. Having said that, it's unclear on a new tank whether the cyano would simply come back after the lights come back on. Similarly, chemiclean is typically very effective in the short term because it's largely erythromycin, and cyanobacteria is extremely sensitive to erythro. However, this may simply be "kicking the can down the road" because one the erythro is removed by skimming, water changes or carbon filtration, the conditions that allowed the cyano bloom may still be there.
Different bacteria prefer different carbon sources. My experience is that ethanol (alcohol in Vodka) and glucose tend to stimulate cyano growth just as much as other bacteria but acetate (the acid in vinegar) does not.
