Lucky me!

Christopher chromis · Jun 16, 2016

Hi everyone!

So I'm new to saltwater have had cichlids for years and decided after my last one passed I was making the change.

Tanks a 60 gallon I've had it up for about 3 months now.
Everything was going great till I got a Koran blue angel. Now let me just clear up I know where I messed up. I don't have a isolation tank yet (stupid me thought I could cheat for a little bit). Well enough being said I came home tho the Koran with ich. I know copper is needed and lucky I don't have coral or invertebrates minus two hermets. But my questions I'm looking for is will copper harm my live rock and the hermets? I don't have the money as of now to get a quarantine tank right now so I'm kinda unsure what I can do at this point.

Fish include
4 blue/green chemistry
2 clowns
1 Singapore angle
And the Koran angle

Thanks for any pointers!
Brands of ich treatment suggestions would be awesome too.

twilliard · Jun 16, 2016

Welcome to the R2R community!
@Humblefish can help point the direction

redfishbluefish · Jun 16, 2016

You don't want to use copper in a DT. It will kill all inverts and be absorbed into the rock and sand, so any inverts introduced later might suffer as well.

If you don't wish to set up a hospital tank, the other option is to pull out all your rock and sand and inverts and put the rock and inverts into a Tupperware with a powerhead and heater and now use you empty tank as a hospital tank. I'd either completely wash the sand or start with new sand. Suggest throwing in a couple pieces of pipe into the tank for the fish to hide. When treatment is done, empty the tank and wash with vinegar....copper does not "stick" to glass or silicone. Refill with new saltwater and reintroduce rock and fish and washed/new sand back into the tank.

Downbeach · Jun 16, 2016

Welcome aboard.

Christopher chromis · Jun 16, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
You don't want to use copper in a DT. It will kill all inverts and be absorbed into the rock and sand, so any inverts introduced later might suffer as well.

If you don't wish to set up a hospital tank, the other option is to pull out all your rock and sand and inverts and put the rock and inverts into a Tupperware with a powerhead and heater and now use you empty tank as a hospital tank. I'd either completely wash the sand or start with new sand. Suggest throwing in a couple pieces of pipe into the tank for the fish to hide. When treatment is done, empty the tank and wash with vinegar....copper does not "stick" to glass or silicone. Refill with new saltwater and reintroduce rock and fish and washed/new sand back into the tank.

Thanks for the fast reply!

I will do a hospital tank here soon unfortunately my funds are low at the moment so it's not a option as of now

. Sadly it's next in the to do list I probably should've waited for the fish untill I got my quarantine tank up. But I got to excited and this is what I get for cutting corners. I just feel bad for the Koran I know he's itchy I watched him rubbing on rocks so I'm trying to get him help as soon as I can. Maybe I'll just use this tank as a quarantine and stick to just fish for now. Been thinking on a 150 to 300 gallon tank for a swim reef tank after I got the quarantine tank up and was going to sell this tank.

Diesel · Jun 16, 2016

My advice is wait till @Humblefish or @melypr1985 will drop in with all the advice you need.

melypr1985 · Jun 16, 2016

welcome to R2R! never put copper in your DT the rock will absorb it and leach it back out later. are you certain this is ick and not velvet? can we get a close up clear picture of him? here are some articles on ick treatment while we wait for a picture.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.247596/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

Humblefish · Jun 16, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
You don't want to use copper in a DT. It will kill all inverts and be absorbed into the rock and sand, so any inverts introduced later might suffer as well.

If you don't wish to set up a hospital tank, the other option is to pull out all your rock and sand and inverts and put the rock and inverts into a Tupperware with a powerhead and heater and now use you empty tank as a hospital tank. I'd either completely wash the sand or start with new sand. Suggest throwing in a couple pieces of pipe into the tank for the fish to hide. When treatment is done, empty the tank and wash with vinegar....copper does not "stick" to glass or silicone. Refill with new saltwater and reintroduce rock and fish and washed/new sand back into the tank.

^^ Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Of course, you will need to run carbon, Cuprisorb, a poly filter, etc. to be sure the copper is all out before putting the rock/sand back in the DT.

Christopher chromis · Jun 16, 2016

melypr1985 said:
welcome to R2R! never put copper in your DT the rock will absorb it and leach it back out later. are you certain this is ick and not velvet? can we get a close up clear picture of him? here are some articles on ick treatment while we wait for a picture.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.247596/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

It could be I've never seen velvet. I did see one of the specks on his eye witch I've never seen before......
I'll post pics of the fish when I get home.

Christopher chromis · Jun 16, 2016

Humblefish said:
^^ Couldn't have said it any better myself. Of course, you will need to run carbon, Cuprisorb, a poly filter, etc. to be sure the copper is all out before putting the rock/sand back in the DT.

So what if it's velvet I've never ran into it before?

melypr1985 · Jun 16, 2016

Christopher chromis said:
So what if it's velvet I've never ran into it before?

In that case you'll want CP or Copper to treat with. If you can go to walmart and get a plastic tote to put the fish in, then all you would need is a sponge filter (or a power filter if it will fit on the edge of the tote), a heater and an ammonia alert badge. Not too shabby and those totes are pretty darn cheap. Humble has a velvet protocol that works really well, and I'll link it here for you, but we want to try to identify what the fish have before things move too far ahead. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Humblefish · Jun 16, 2016

Christopher chromis said:
So what if it's velvet I've never ran into it before?

Copper or CP would cover you either way, if its ich or velvet.

Christopher chromis · Jun 16, 2016

Humblefish said:
Copper or CP would cover you either way, if its ich or velvet.

I'll pick some copper up on the way home sense I'll need it either way out.

Humblefish · Jun 16, 2016

Christopher chromis said:
I'll pick some copper up on the way home sense I'll need it either way out.

You'll also need a copper test kit. Read this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

Christopher chromis · Jun 16, 2016

Humblefish said:
You'll also need a copper test kit. Read this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

Petsmart or Petco should carry test kits right my marine store is closed :/

Humblefish · Jun 16, 2016

Christopher chromis said:
Petsmart or Petco should carry test kits right my marine store is closed :/

Maybe. You don't need the test kit right away. It can wait.

Christopher chromis · Jun 17, 2016

So I got good news and even more good news and news that makes me feel completely stupid lol

So most of what I thought to be ich is gone. Now early yesterday I did stir up the sand a lil moving rocks and I cleaned the foam piece (attached a pic so you know what in talking about) while doing this witch had alot of sand and old practicals of food while doing it alot came out of the foam piece. Could that have stuck to him? That was the thing that's making me feel stupid lol.
Let me know what you guys think if it is or I'm just being a new worried owner lol

Best news I now have a isolation tank! Thanks to some one at petsmart that marked it with a 10gal start up price tag saw it walking in picked it up and went straight to the register with it lol 29 gal for just under $50 score. Got the ich med just incase and salt.

Humblefish · Jun 17, 2016

It might have been sand/debris stuck to his slime coat; but also know trophonts (i.e. the white dots) drop off a fish to continue their lifecycle. (They come back.)

Ich trophonts have a 3-7 day duration on the fish. However, velvet trophonts can remain on a fish for as little as 12 hours or as long as 4 days (dependent upon strain).

Christopher chromis · Jun 17, 2016

Well I observe em every day so that scratches off ich.
Think I'll just keep a eye on them and not stir up the tank for a while.
I trust the shop I got the fish at but figured it happens and freaked when I saw it.

Least I got my quarantine tank now if anything dose happen. Setting it up now.