Lyretail Anthias from Live Aquaria today

[davocean]

Interesting. One of the females does have the spike that seems to be pink/red. I was wondering if she was turning to a male. In my case, since our male was DOA, that would be a good thing.

Yeah I got 4 "females" w/ a spike like that, it would have been a war, but at least LA did back up the purchases after I sent pics of them.
Good luck w/ yours.

 

[Salt1972]

@Brew12 @Humblefish -- I need some help please. The Sea Chem badge continues to indicate ammonia. I bought a Red Sea Ammonia test kit this morning. There is definitely ammonia present - maybe 1.2ppm or so. I added some Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter.

Should I do another water change? How much (25g long Q tank)? Use freshly mixed water or water from our display?
Should I add Prime to alleviate the ammonia toxicity even though we want to move toward Prazi / Copper when we fix the ammonia?

The Q tank is a 20gL running a HOB filter with a sponge from our display, heater, and airstone. It has a 6-8lb piece of live rock from our display and was running ~4weeks prior to adding these 5 anthias.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Matt

 

[WWIII]

#reefsquad
@HotRocks
@4FordFamily
@melypr1985

Hopefully someone above, humblefish, or Brew can help you here. I would get water ready for a change. I would also probably take the rock out. Something seems to be raising ammonia more than the fish waste imo.

 

[HotRocks]

#reefsquad
@HotRocks
@4FordFamily
@melypr1985

Hopefully someone above, humblefish, or Brew can help you here. I would get water ready for a change. I would also probably take the rock out. Something seems to be raising ammonia more than the fish waste imo.

I would do at least a 50% WC. You need to get the ammonia reduced ASAP.

Have you began medication of any sort yet?

 

[Salt1972]

#reefsquad
@HotRocks
@4FordFamily
@melypr1985

Hopefully someone above, humblefish, or Brew can help you here. I would get water ready for a change. I would also probably take the rock out. Something seems to be raising ammonia more than the fish waste imo.

I've got water mixing now. LFS said that I'm restarting the cycle with the water changes... I don't want to make it worse, but I'd like to limit the ammonia exposure to these anthias.

 

[4FordFamily]

I've got water mixing now. LFS said that I'm restarting the cycle with the water changes... I don't want to make it worse, but I'd like to limit the ammonia exposure to these anthias.

Any ammonia is very bad news. I did 90% water changes in quarantine when I have issues with it. Dose beneficial bacteria like BioSpira or even better the fritz turbo start 9000— it’ll eventually assist greatly so long as it has some media to colonize.

 

[Salt1972]

I would do at least a 50% WC. You need to get the ammonia reduced ASAP.

Have you began medication of any sort yet?

I've got water mixing now. There is no medication in the water yet. Unless Selcon on the food counts.

Change with fresh or display water? Remove rock? Remove sponge? Add Brightwell Micr Bacter?

 

[Salt1972]

Any ammonia is very bad news. I did 90% water changes in quarantine when I have issues with it. Dose beneficial bacteria like BioSpira or even better the fritz turbo start 9000— it’ll eventually assist greatly so long as it has some media to colonize.

Thank you and @HotRocks . I don't have Dr. Tim's, BioSpira, or Fritz. LFS did not have them. They recommended Brightwell Microbacter. Will that work or do I need to search other LFS? Should I use Prime?

 

[Salt1972]

OK. I did a 90% water change with fresh mix Reef Crystals, removed the live rock, changed the sponge out for the one in the display tank, and dosed 2 caps of Brightwell Microbacter.

We were supposed to start Prazi or Copper today, but we're waiting until we can stabilize the ammonia.

Thanks for all of your help. Please keep it coming. There's been more than one time today I wanted to put these Anthias in the display...

 

[WWIII]

OK. I did a 90% water change with fresh mix Reef Crystals, removed the live rock, changed the sponge out for the one in the display tank, and dosed 2 caps of Brightwell Microbacter.

We were supposed to start Prazi or Copper today, but we're waiting until we can stabilize the ammonia.

Thanks for all of your help. Please keep it coming. There's been more than one time today I wanted to put these Anthias in the display...

I'm far from qt expert, but it does get easier the more times you qt! Good luck, will be following along!

 

[HotRocks]

If you dose prime you can't start copper for 7 days. If you can't get the ammonia reduced ASAP with WCs you may have to use prime to detoxify the ammonia.

 

[Salt1972]

Day 5 - Anthia Quarantine Update:
1. Ammonia finally appears to be under control. Only trace amounts this morning. I'll continue to monitor daily in addition to the Sea Chem badge.
2. We added 5mL Prazipro this morning. I don't *think* we saw flukes on the freshwater dip, but it's possible and I'm playing this round SAFE.
3. Water was a bit cloudy this morning. I assume that's from the Microbacter causing a bacteria bloom... probably good for the ammonia.
4. All 5 Anthias are eating like velociraptors. 1 cube Frozen mysis with Selcon twice daily. Siphon any waste and uneaten food after each feeding.

Thanks to all for your help and guidance. We're open to advice and direction and appreciate the support.

 

[Salt1972]

Day 12 - Anthia Quarantine Update:

OK. We started ramping up Copper Power today. We're aiming to be at 1.75ppm in 5 days. We have API Copper Test, but, since we've got at least 1 more round of quarantine (maybe 2) after these guys, we're thinking about getting the Hanna Copper checker.

So far, these 5 Lyretail Anthias (1 is turning male) have gone through:

• 3 Days Observation & Feeding 10/23 - 10/25
• Freshwater Dip - 5m - 10/25
• 7 Days of Prazipro - 10/26 - 11/2
• Water Change + 48 hours Carbon - 11/2 - 11/4
• Starting Copper Power - 11/4 - 11/23

We continue to BATTLE ammonia. We're doing 95% water changes every 36-48 hours even with a HOB with seeded sponge, Microbacter7, powerhead, & air stone. We're feeding 1 cube frozen mysis 2x daily and they eat well... "don't put your hand in the tank" well. Everyone seems healthy and fat, but staying on top of these water changes and maintaining therapeutic levels is A LOT of work.

We appreciate the feedback, suggestions, and direction. Please keep it coming.

 

[Salt1972]

Well... I caved. 5 Anthias did GREAT with freshwater bath & 7 days of Prazi. They were eating well, out and about, etc. On the 3rd day of Copper Power (approx 1.25ppm), all of them started breathing heavy and swimming on their sides, eating slowed... nothing good. The ammonia was creeping up (I battled ammonia the entire time they were in Q) and, so, I put them through a display tank water rinse and released them in the display. 2 have died. There was one already in the tank. So, we have 4 right now.

 

[HotRocks]

Ammonia is very toxic to fish. Baths in methalyne blue would be helpful if they were being exposed to ammonia.

I would suggest using biospira as your bacteria in a bottle. I've had much success with it.

Also anthias due to the amount of feedings they require a day, you have to be very careful not to overfeed in QT. Feeding them multiple very small meals a day is the best.

 

[davocean]

That's a bummer, but 4 is doable, hope the remaining do well.
So 3 new females and original male?
Post pics when you can.

 

[Salt1972]

Ammonia is very toxic to fish. Baths in methalyne blue would be helpful if they were being exposed to ammonia.

I would suggest using biospira as your bacteria in a bottle. I've had much success with it.

Also anthias due to the amount of feedings they require a day, you have to be very careful not to overfeed in QT. Feeding them multiple very small meals a day is the best.

Thanks HotRocks. I feel like I failed the QT regimen. I've left the QT set up with ammonia in it to let if fully cycle. In January, we're looking to add 1 or 2 tangs and we'll try to QT route again. I considered the meth blue before releasing the anthias, but didn't want to use any more chemicals than they'd already been exposed to. There was a thick clear goop around the dead anthias. I don't know if that indicated anything and I'm not sure if it was Copper, ammonia, or something else. Despite our failed attempt, I appreciate your help and guidance. We'll get better.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

sorry to hear the loss,
Best to have a cycled tank before applying medications specially with copper in it. Most of those meds will kill 25-50% of the bacteria and sometimes throw tanks back into mini cycle. As stated above ammonia in any levels is deadly.
0.1 NH3 levels will do damage to internal organs, burn gills etc and at 0.2 NH3 is deadly. most test kits are TAN (NH3+NH4) for your tank to hit 0.2 NH3 you need pH 8-8.2 and TAN kit to register 1.5-2ppm.

For your next go around i would beef up the bacteria population. Bacteria lives in a fixed ratio/proportion as ammonia being produced. It can take about 15 hrs for bacteria to multiply and double the size. Before introducing fish, a few days prior double ghost feed the tank or better way is to dose ammonium chloride to beef up bacteria.
Also keep some bacteria on hand. In my studies so far Fritz TurboStart 900 has out performed many other brands and usually cycles a 5gal tank with 2ppm starting ammonia in 2 days.

 

[HotRocks]

With tangs you will definitely want a well cycled QT. They are dirty fish with high metabolism. So you have to be able to process ammonia.

 

[Art2249]

Interesting. One of the females does have the spike that seems to be pink/red. I was wondering if she was turning to a male. In my case, since our male was DOA, that would be a good thing.

I bought three females hoping they will sort out who becomes the male.