lyretail anthias- started with 3 now only one...

[rickybrooks05]

What did I do wrong? I bought what I thought was three females... But two fought after the acclimation period within hours. The weak one died... The other one died a few days later... Only one left is the dominate female..? I would like to keep them but how should I got about this next time...

 

[mattzang]

not sure you really did anything wrong, seems a lot of people don't like to keep lyretails because they're a little keen on murdering each other. perhaps more (5+) would've helped to diffuse aggression?

fwiw i have one singly and she does fine, she's definitely not shy without other anthias around and is an eating machine so you could just leave it be

 

[hdsoftail1065]

I have 4, first time with these fish so I can't answer why or what you could do different. I have never seen aggression with them until one started transitioning to male. Now he tends to chase them but nothing to crazy yet.

 

[User1]

As @mattzang noted above sea golides or lyretails can be poo heads to one another especially if you have only 3 or 4. There just isn't enough room for the aggression to be spread out properly. What happens is that one will become the more dominate one and during feeding time chase the others away which in turn force them to hide, miss meals, and slowly die off. They are not like chromis that beat the snot out of them but it is more out of starvation over time with lyretails. You really need a mature tank, lots of corals, and 3 feedings a day to have the group make it - and that food needs to be on opposite sides of the tank...

I've owned 4 and this is what I saw. Very healthy fish. Ate pellet, brine, and mysis shrimp. At first they all got along. Within a week one clearly became the dominate one. I have a 210 gallon tank with 150 lbs of rock. Not that mature so not a lot of corals but lots of nooks and crannies for them to have a retreat. At least once a day they would group up calmly and swim around the tank a bit. Later though they all found their respected area behind a rock or coral to break the flow, and wait for food. I'd add in food to either side of the tank and then the you would see them dart out of their area to strike the food. If you have ever hunted trout (fishing or fly fishing) in a river or stream this is similar to them. They hide behind a rock or tree out of the flow waiting for food - it passes by, they dart out, grab, and then go back. Less energy, right?

Anyway my point is that in time the more aggressive one will start pushing the others away and it limits their food intake. So much that they wither away due to lack of food. They need a lot of food. They are very active. They are fast. They are busy. No food, no energy, death. I lost mine in about 2 months. Reading and research through various forums pretty much followed with what I witnessed first hand. If I am to try again, and I may, then I'd probably go with 12 to 15 of them with the mindset they will have more fish to spread the aggression over. Or buy one male with the 12 to 15 females.

Beautiful fish. Just need to have enough of tank, mature coral, areas to sleep to call their own, and a lot of food otherwise it won't end up well. At least that is what I've seen and read.

 

[Angel_Anthias lover]

Possibly if you buy an already established male there wont be as much agression for establishing a dominant male, but i can't say this will work and can depend on the temperament of the individuals involved
Ive kept a trio for over a year and no signs of bullying to point of death , but I'd say this is and exception rather than the norm

 

[Burrito]

I had 2 female and one male at one time. 1 female was dead in days. The 2nd lived a bullied life for 2 month and died. The male lives on happily. Sucks too. I think the females were much prettier

 

[rickybrooks05]

Tough fish it seems... I’ll probably let the lone wolf grow for a bit and possibly maybe add 5+.
I wonder if a picture of a female on the outside of the tank would transition him/her to a male..?

 

[csb123]

I’ve tried lyretails twice, in my 2 year old, 300 gallon reef. Once, with groups of 5 and subsequently 7. Both times they gradually died one by one. Between being picky eaters and intraspecies aggression, I just could not find success. I have seen very few tanks, in my reefing community, with long term success keeping a happy school of them. Actually, I haven’t seen any tanks with schools of any anthia species, long term. But, that’s just one reefers observation.

 

[ca1ore]

Anthias are generally tricky. They don’t ship or acclimate well ... and then delight in beating the crap out of each other. This is particularly true with bartletts and those from the franzia sub-genus like lyretails. The best approach, IME, is to buy smaller females (thus minimizing the chance that one is turning). BUT, they need space and regular feedings .... and still may pick each other off. Losses within the first few days are common.

 

[Hal3134]

As Beautiful fish. Just need to have enough of tank, mature coral, areas to sleep to call their own, and a lot of food otherwise it won't end up well. At least that is what I've seen and read.

Why do you think that mature coral is a factor in their health?

 

[shred5]

Very common in lyretails. They start by killing the smallest and weakest female and work their way up.
It not just the male it is the larger females that do the killing.

Bartletts are the ones where they turn male and kill each other off.

 

[User1]

Why do you think that mature coral is a factor in their health?

Places to weave in and out of. To hide. To break up the chase. I'm coming from a scuba divers perspective though as I come across a reef crest and see everyone darting around or along side a wall. In my experience watching their natural behavior can be replicated although on a smaller scale in our reefs. Large shoals of fish have plenty of targets to spread the aggression around be it tempers or reproductive. If you see them start to chase they often turn around and dart in a direction to their safety spot or different one if it is occupied, etc.

My point about coral and tank maturity is this. New tank. Bare rocks. Fish. They have nowhere to go. Everywhere is the same regardless of how big the tank is. Sure there may be nooks and crannies but the aggressor can pretty much see the same thing. As the corals mature, grow, and start to fill in you suddenly have Xenia covering a hole much like a waterfall would blanket a cave behind it. Xenia was just an example but LPS and SPS also offer refuge. Big fish, little fish, places to hide, etc.

Again - this is just my opinion based on owning some and how I think things work.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

One thing I have learned with Anthias is food makes a huge difference. A few years ago I tired a trio of females and one male. The females murdered each other until "There was only one". Tried it again after starting another tank, same thing, but I decided to try something after seeing some things about how much food they actually need. Auto feeder 6x a day feeding a small amount falling into my gyre and it getting blasted throughout the tank. Aggression went bye bye. I now have 1 male and 4 females all doing good for over a year with this feeding regimen. One of the females is the winner from the other try. The male sadly darted for food at the wrong angle one day and went smack into my foxface's spines and then fell down into my haddoni for its lunch. Kinda crappy, as I liked that guy.

 

[Kmsutows]

My advice for anthias is to always buy females and buy as small as you can find with one being obviously bigger than the rest. If they are all the same size they try to establish a hierarchy and decide who will become male. One large allows for it to be obvious and less aggression

 

[Corey Baker]

Ill chime in.... I started with a male and two females. and like everyone else one female died quickly. The male and remaining female have been happy for 2 or so years. I feed once a day a mix of everything and occasionally forget to feed one day so i dont know if food is the key... The odd thing i've experienced is the female lyretail and my Borbonius anthias fight all the time, they hate one another but then sleep side by side every night, its weird. Both are very healthy so they dont do much than take turns chasing one another around or lock jaws and push each other. oh and these are in a 100gal tank

 

[cracker]

You didn't do anything wrong. These fish are just like that. I want to try again with more small fish so aggression is spread out. I understand they need lot's of room to swim lot of feeding & good flow.
"Eat breakfast" knows a lot about Anthias.